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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Minor v. Happersett explicitly leaves open the question of whether children born on US soil to non-citizen parents are natural born citizens, saying, "Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts." Later, United States v. Wong Kim Ark touched upon the matter, and relying upon United States v. Wong Kim Ark, it was later ruled in Ankeny v. Governor of Indiana that "Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are 'natural born Citizens' for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents." That ruling in term has informed and been upheld by other courts as well. The jurisprudence seems pretty clear here, and it seems to be in favor of President Obama. Admittedly I'm no student of law, so perhaps I'm missing something. |
Fox, you have valid points, as usual. However, there are two differences.
1.The difference between a "natural born citizen" and a "naturalized citizen"
2. I looked over the Wong Kim Ark case...but it has nothing to do with the legal grounds on which one can be president.
And to be fair, these things apply to Senator Cruz as well.
There was once a thread on this board, talking in reference to the U.S. being a "Police State"...i.e., Fascist.
The purest definition of the term, is "The merger of State and Corporate Power"...as said by Benito Mussolini.
The American people had a chance to elect an honest man..Ron Paul
And after reading his book, A Foreign Policy of Freedom, I am convinced he was the right man....but the media ignored him, thus the public paid him no mind....but those who followed him, KNEW he was the right guy for the job.
But...here we are now. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Hawaii says Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.
This is another Bush v. Gore situation. You know, where people who say they are conservative suddenly abandon the principles of Federalism and deference to States in matters regarding elections because it no longer benefits them.
Hawaii says Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Hawaii says Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.
This is another Bush v. Gore situation. You know, where people who say they are conservative suddenly abandon the principles of Federalism and deference to States in matters regarding elections because it no longer benefits them.
Hawaii says Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. |
Kuros...we are not talking what Hawaii said...
This is NOT another "Bush vs. Gore" situation.
On the matters of "conservatism" (not that it has much to do wit this thread), please explain the origins, progress and changes in that ideology. Though should keep you busy.
But I digress...this is about another issue.
Please refer back to previous postings. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Hawaii says Barack Obama was born in Hawaii |
But...on that note...(and I am not purposely trying to marginalize what you are saying...but I have to ask)....do you believe everything the government tells you?
Again...that is not an attack. But...I just thought I would throw it out there... |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: |
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I apologize...I don't mean to hijack my own thread.
So...I will remain on point.
It IS priceless, to see those clowns, hand in hand, signing some sort of hymn (or whatever), as if they are actually on the same team, representing the American people.
John Adams had a great fear of political factions, forming into parties... |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| People who think they are informed, but aren't, or people who are most likely to be heavily involved in politics are the voters you have to watch out for. People who are highly involved and follow things closely heavily, no surprises here, tend to be the most partisan. Moderates tend to be less involved and follow less closely, but please send more of them to the polls than these hyper partisan primary voters we've had. The problem is that people tend to follow 'politics' like they follow sports. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Moderates tend to be less involved and follow less closely, but please send more of them to the polls than these hyper partisan primary voters we've had. |
You're still operating under the old framework, Leon, the one which posits that voters select representatives who represent the interests of the voters when they select legislation. More moderates in the electoral pool would do little. America needs electoral funding reform.
Also, America needs more Leftism. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Moderates tend to be less involved and follow less closely, but please send more of them to the polls than these hyper partisan primary voters we've had. |
You're still operating under the old framework, Leon, the one which posits that voters select representatives who represent the interests of the voters when they select legislation. More moderates in the electoral pool would do little. America needs electoral funding reform.
Also, America needs more Leftism. |
That may be so, but I think you are wrong. Legislators very much do consider which legislation they vote on based on primary voters. There are very many problems with our democracy, and what you say is true, but the creation of so many safe districts also has a significant perverting factor, in that really if you are in a safe district why even try to compromise or represent the true spectrum of interests and needs in your district as opposed to the only votes that actually matter.
Also there is the whole treating politics like sports and zero-sum games. And, less important, but people who have just started learning politics and the "constitution" and become loud libertarians/constitutional lawyers on the internet. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, America needs more Leftism |
I am hoping that is a joke...left of center, OK.
Although, over the years BOTH conservatism and liberalism (on the modern American stage) have shifted left.
But..do you wish tackle that, what it means to be "left"?
I promise you, it is not "liberalism", in the context it is "commercialized" in America today. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem is that people tend to follow 'politics' like they follow sports |
...or, they take in what the television says, as opposed to doing their own research. It is that simple.
Looking up a voting record, is a good first step.
Analyzing a candidates past and current circle of associates, is always useful.
Taking the time to swipe away the political rhetoric that usually seems to be undefined, would be useful as well.
Focusing on where a candidate stands on actually protecting the constitution, as opposed to buying into the same jargon that surrounds the same recycled issues. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
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| Also, America needs more Leftism |
I am hoping that is a joke...left of center, OK.
Although, over the years BOTH conservatism and liberalism (on the modern American stage) have shifted left.
But..do you wish tackle that, what it means to be "left"?
I promise you, it is not "liberalism", in the context it is "commercialized" in America today. |
America shifted right with Reagan and has never really looked Left since.
In short, Leftism stands for income redistribution, material equality, collective action, and libertarian socialism.
I do not mean state socialism or authoritarian leftism. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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America shifted right with Reagan and has never really looked Left since.
In short, Leftism stands for income redistribution, material equality, collective action, and libertarian socialism.
I do not mean state socialism or authoritarian leftism. |
I see...OK, I can see where you are going.
However, with the Reagan comment...I have to disagree. The concept of "big government", on the Federal side, HAS expanded, even under Reagan. The "right" side of the spectrum, which in today's terms is "conservatism", calls for less government intrusion.
Though, I was reading an interesting article in The Weekly Standard, in regards to LBJ's "Great Society"...it has some commonality to what we are talking about (well, not much to do with the thread title). . |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| article in The Weekly Standard |
Actually, it is a really good article, written by Nicholas Eberstadt, titled "The Great Society at Fifty"...I think it is a rather fair assessment.
It is the May 19, 2014 edition. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| In short, Leftism stands for income redistribution, material equality, collective action, and libertarian socialism. |
I admit, after reading up on it, there are some points, regarding that ideology.
Though, and this is just me, I think it would work better with a smaller population....the more a population grows, the more complex it becomes. Thus, government steps in and takes on more responsibilities, in which case, provides more power to the central government....
At least, that is what Alexander Hamilton thought. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In short, Leftism stands for income redistribution, material equality, collective action, and libertarian socialism. |
I admit, after reading up on it, there are some points, regarding that ideology.
Though, and this is just me, I think it would work better with a smaller population....the more a population grows, the more complex it becomes. Thus, government steps in and takes on more responsibilities, in which case, provides more power to the central government....
At least, that is what Alexander Hamilton thought. |
I agree with you on the smaller population. That's why I'm also a Federalist and I believe that the so-called police power should be reserved for the States, except for specifically enumerated Federal powers. California is too large to be a single state, as are Texas and Florida.
Note that I said America needs more Leftism, not that America needs to be Leftist through and through. There is an imbalance and its hurting our generation. Also, we should embrace experimentation and not be afraid to discard Leftist ideas which don't work. |
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