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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Though I admit...I have not heard anything about this. But, I'm not saying I would not go. I really do not have much keeping my hands tied on a Saturday, anyhow. If there is a nice lunch provided, I would consider it...it depends on how the school would approach me on the matter (just as the same applies as to how we approach our schools). But, if they came in my classroom, "spitting and spraying" and demanding I should attend, I would find the most prudent language that would express the true meaning for them to..."eat a d**k.
The "Hogwan Association" may be limited to localities in certain areas, in which, they get together, chat and form their little scams. Who knows? |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
Though I admit...I have not heard anything about this. But, I'm not saying I would not go. I really do not have much keeping my hands tied on a Saturday, anyhow. If there is a nice lunch provided, I would consider it...it depends on how the school would approach me on the matter (just as the same applies as to how we approach our schools). But, if they came in my classroom, "spitting and spraying" and demanding I should attend, I would find the most prudent language that would express the true meaning for them to..."eat a d**k.
The "Hogwan Association" may be limited to localities in certain areas, in which, they get together, chat and form their little scams. Who knows? |
I know. |
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pmwhittier
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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I went to the Daejeon "teacher training" seminar in 2012. What a joke! There was a sign-up at the door, and you had to list your name and school. They had no idea how many schools or how many teachers were actually in the city. One speaker was helpful, and the other was a total joke. But the good part was that it was on a work day, so I got to relax for a few hours when I would have been otherwise working.
The next year, my hagwon just lied to the organizers about how many foreign teachers we had at our school. Only 2 teachers attended out of the 6 total. Nothing ever came of it.
I remember the topics covered in the teacher training. They ranged from 'how to obtain an E-2 visa' (useful, since we were all already in Korea) to a guy just randomly talking about how gross the birth of his son had been (on stage, in front of the whole audience, with incredibly broken English).
Never again! |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| So is the woman who is under investigation for attempted murder and who tried to bribe police officers with a billion won still the head of the KAH (Korean Association of Hogwans)? Have they chosen a new leader? Maybe that's something you can ask about when you attend this teacher training seminar. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Again, I challenge you to find just 1 instance (ever) where an E2 employee was (legally) prosecuted or fined by any government office of competent authority for failing to attend.
A hagwon association does NOT have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee.
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I was fined by the local education office for failure to attend in 2002. |
haha
if my shoes were bought that long ago, Id get fired for wearing them  |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| pmwhittier wrote: |
I went to the Daejeon "teacher training" seminar in 2012. What a joke! There was a sign-up at the door, and you had to list your name and school. They had no idea how many schools or how many teachers were actually in the city. One speaker was helpful, and the other was a total joke. But the good part was that it was on a work day, so I got to relax for a few hours when I would have been otherwise working.
The next year, my hagwon just lied to the organizers about how many foreign teachers we had at our school. Only 2 teachers attended out of the 6 total. Nothing ever came of it.
I remember the topics covered in the teacher training. They ranged from 'how to obtain an E-2 visa' (useful, since we were all already in Korea) to a guy just randomly talking about how gross the birth of his son had been (on stage, in front of the whole audience, with incredibly broken English).
Never again! |
thats hilarous! I would definiately pay to see that. |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Kepler wrote: |
I think it is mandatory. Hagwon teachers in Daejon received this type of training back in May. Translation of a newspaper article about the event:
"On May 21, the Daejeon Metropolitan Office of Education will hold the 2014 Foreign Hagwon Instructor Training Education, organized by the Daejeon branch of the Korea Association of Hakwon, in the auditorium of the Daejeon Institute of Education and Science from 9:30 to 11:30 in the morning.
"This training is for 309 foreign hagwon instructors on E-2 visas working at 122 hagwons under the DMOE's jurisdiction and is to be held for the purpose of preparing them for their roles as social educators and to help them adapt to Korean culture.
"This training is to strengthen the capability of foreign teachers by inspiring a sense of responsibility and sense of duty as lifelong educators and to educate them about 'understanding Korean culture' and 'prevention and punishment of sex crimes against children and youth.'
"The plan for this year's training is for foreign instructors to have an understanding of Korean culture and laws to prevent such things as sex crimes from happening in hagwons beforehand and to be the starting point for quality instructors to work in Daejeon hagwons."
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2014/05/foreign-instructors-receiving-education.html |
This is the only reason for the "training". When I attended this, there was a lecture from a police chief telling us what we can and can't do with children (ie you can give them a high 5, you cant touch their privates)
did they scrap the immigration guy who explains the process of acquiring an E-2 visa, to a room full of E-2 visa holders? |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
| Quote: |
Again, I challenge you to find just 1 instance (ever) where an E2 employee was (legally) prosecuted or fined by any government office of competent authority for failing to attend.
A hagwon association does NOT have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee |
While that may be true...it does not mean a teacher will still have a job the following week. |
consider how much a hagwon has invested in a foreign teacher (flight,housing, training etc) You think they are gonna fire you on the spot
for not attending?
I skipped this last year. I told my academy I was sick, and wanted to rest
up, so I would be 100% to teach on Monday. They couldn't care less than I missed it. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Again, I challenge you to find just 1 instance (ever) where an E2 employee was (legally) prosecuted or fined by any government office of competent authority for failing to attend.
A hagwon association does NOT have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee.
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I was fined by the local education office for failure to attend in 2002. |
OK... but they didn't start running them until after the CPN affair in 2007.
2002 everyone was too busy with "World Cup".
| trueblue wrote: |
| While that may be true...it does not mean a teacher will still have a job the following week. |
Yes, they will. It doesn't work as a legitimate excuse for termination of employment either.
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Again, I challenge you to find just 1 instance (ever) where an E2 employee was (legally) prosecuted or fined by any government office of competent authority for failing to attend.
A hagwon association does NOT have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee.
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I was fined by the local education office for failure to attend in 2002. |
They need to fine me then as well. I've never been to any of these events. It must be a Seoul thing. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Again, I challenge you to find just 1 instance (ever) where an E2 employee was (legally) prosecuted or fined by any government office of competent authority for failing to attend.
A hagwon association does NOT have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee.
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I was fined by the local education office for failure to attend in 2002. |
They need to fine me then as well. I've never been to any of these events. It must be a Seoul thing. |
The question is whether you have been invited at all to any of these meetings.
1) Many areas of Korea have never held these or have only begun recently. If your local education office has not arranged for a meeting, you will never have to attend.
2) These meetings are required for all hogwan teachers who are legally registered at their local education office. If you are not registered you will not be invited. Of course very few E2 teachers would be aware whether they are registered properly or not.
If it took you more than a few weeks to get your ARC, there is a good chance that you are not registered - legally you have only 2 weeks to get your ARC and get registered. The 90 day requirement for Immigration does not apply, you actually have only two weeks from your first day of teaching. There is a fine for registering late, so your boss may just forget to register you if you take too long to get your ARC.
If you are treated as an IC or not registered at all with the tax office, there is also a good chance that you are not properly registerd at the local education office.
3) The meetings are not held in the same month each year, so it's possible to arrive and register with the local education office after the required meeting in one year and to finish a one year contract before the meeting is held in the next year. (It's also possible to be required to attend twice in one contract year.) |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Again, I challenge you to find just 1 instance (ever) where an E2 employee was (legally) prosecuted or fined by any government office of competent authority for failing to attend.
A hagwon association does NOT have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee.
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I was fined by the local education office for failure to attend in 2002. |
OK... but they didn't start running them until after the CPN affair in 2007.
2002 everyone was too busy with "World Cup".
| trueblue wrote: |
| While that may be true...it does not mean a teacher will still have a job the following week. |
Yes, they will. It doesn't work as a legitimate excuse for termination of employment either.
. |
Ttompatz, you are so wrong and so risibly ignorant of this topic that you should refrain from posting about it at Dave's. You are good with clerical and filing proceedures explained to you by the Immigration office. Stick with that.
What you are saying about 2007 and CPN is nonsense. And being legally required for a teacher, failure to attend will absolutely be held as a legitimate reason for termination. You are giving dangerous and wrong legal advice here. You are exposing yourself to civil liability for giving such legal advice, especially since you are not a lawyer and have no competence in legal matters.
These meetings have been held for years prior to 2007 in Korea, at least as far back as 2000. It is required that all hogwan teachers, Korean and foreign, attend, along with managers, directors and owners. The problem for E2 teachers is that they generally don't speak Korean, so many areas have no meetings for them. Some areas set up English language meetings for the E2s, some do not. Many F visa holders have been required to attend the Korean language meetings, whether or not they can actually understand.
The first E2 teacher's meeting I attended was in 2000. They were held in several cities, so if we missed the local one we would be required to attend a more distant one. There was no option, attendance was legally mandatory, failure to attend would be met with dismissal.
I do not know about meetings held before 2000, since that was my first one. It is possible that was the first year for these meetings, however, it did not seem to be a new thing at the time. It was billed as an annual event. However, hundreds of teachers have attended these training meetings since the year 2000, in numerous locations that I'm aware of, meaning thousands of teachers over the years; well before 2007.
The first few years, all E2 hogwan teachers attended - not just English teachers. There were translations given of the Korean speakers in English, Japanese and Chinese. After a few years, separate meetings were set up for the non-English speaking E2s given at the same time and location. Recently I haven't seen these others held, so I don't know their status.
In 2002 I was not notified of the date and missed the meeting. A written letter was sent with a notification of the fine. My wonjangnim paid since she had forgotten to tell me about the meeting.
Ttompatz, I have given you the facts. You should not pretend to know things that you are clueless about.
Last edited by ontheway on Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:23 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Anything beyond case-by-case basis advice for dealing with hagwons is ridiculous. You have hagwons that are well established and ones that are fly-by-night and either one may or may not require you to go to such a thing depending on the whims of your boss. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Anything beyond case-by-case basis advice for dealing with hagwons is ridiculous. You have hagwons that are well established and ones that are fly-by-night and either one may or may not require you to go to such a thing depending on the whims of your boss. |
The hogwan training meetings are required by law and handled by local education offices.
It is not up to your boss, not up to your hogwan, not up to any hogwan association, and not up to the MOE in Seoul whether you have to go, nor what happens if you don't (regarding attending an alternate meeting or being fined or overlooking the matter), nor whether the meetings are held at all in your area. These things are all up to your local (or sometimes provincial level) education office. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
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