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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Anything beyond case-by-case basis advice for dealing with hagwons is ridiculous. You have hagwons that are well established and ones that are fly-by-night and either one may or may not require you to go to such a thing depending on the whims of your boss. |
The hogwan training meetings are required by law and handled by local education offices.
It is not up to your boss, not up to your hogwan, not up to any hogwan association, and not up to the MOE in Seoul whether you have to go, nor what happens if you don't (regarding attending an alternate meeting or being fined or overlooking the matter), nor whether the meetings are held at all in your area. These things are all up to your local (or sometimes provincial level) education office. |
Bolded by me. Please stop referring to them as "training" meetings as no meaningful training takes place at them. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Anything beyond case-by-case basis advice for dealing with hagwons is ridiculous. You have hagwons that are well established and ones that are fly-by-night and either one may or may not require you to go to such a thing depending on the whims of your boss. |
The hogwan training meetings are required by law and handled by local education offices.
It is not up to your boss, not up to your hogwan, not up to any hogwan association, and not up to the MOE in Seoul whether you have to go, nor what happens if you don't (regarding attending an alternate meeting or being fined or overlooking the matter), nor whether the meetings are held at all in your area. These things are all up to your local (or sometimes provincial level) education office. |
I'm bracing myself for the massive attendance at this event and failing that, the wave of fines that will sweep the NET hagwon community. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
This follows my experience as well. I worked in a hog won from 2002-2005, and even had immi come by and check us - yet never once was this sort of thing mentioned (Gyyonggi).
Never heard of it until now. Never heard of it in person. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Your word is completely useless when you make up facts. You claim that these meetings never existed before 2007 when they've been going on much longer - at least back to 2000.
It is more likely that you have never lived in any area where the meetings were being held at the time you lived there - so you were never invited at all. Obviously there is no penalty for not attending something that didn't happen where you were living. It's like denying the holocaust because you were never sent to a camp.
Other posters are under the same delusion: if it didn't happen in your area, because your local education office is behind or unable to fulfill its legal duties doesn't mean that others have escaped. You may have driven down the highway at 200 kph without getting a ticket, but it doesn't mean its legal or the next guy will escape.
The local education offices in many areas, such as Seoul, have not held the required training until recently, if ever, for E2 teachers even if they are holding the training for others. Korean governmental departments do not have a reputation of always fulfilling their required duties of inspection, regulation or training.
Ttomopatz is wrong and unable to do the research necessary to discover that these meetings have been going on for far longer than he is aware of, that they are taken very seriously in parts of Korea, that they were happening here when he was here, but like many things about Korea, reality escaped his fantasy world view.
It's funny how Ttompatz wears the duncecap of ignorance and pretends its a badge of honor. The fact that you are pretending to be an expert when you in fact know nothing of how things actually work in varioius parts of Korea is astonishing. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
This follows my experience as well. I worked in a hog won from 2002-2005, and even had immi come by and check us - yet never once was this sort of thing mentioned (Gyyonggi).
Never heard of it until now. Never heard of it in person. |
Gyonggi is one of the areas that hasn't held the meetings at all in the past. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
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Old Painless
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
Unless of course you hand them a little white envelope stuffed with cash. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
Who do you think you are talking to, boy. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
Who do you think you are talking to, boy. |
He called you boy, ontheway. Those are fighting words. What say you? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
Who do you think you are talking to, boy. |
I've seen several hogwans closed down by the education office for lesser things. I'm sure that you have close ties with your local education office, maybe they're easy going where you live, but that's not the way in other cities and provinces. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
Who do you think you are talking to, boy. |
He called you boy, ontheway. Those are fighting words. What say you? |
190,000 teachers been through the system here and this boy (ontheway) is the only one who has been fined. His boss probably gave him a 7-Eleven ice cream receipt and told him it was a fine. Boss stuck the money in his pocket and laughed. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
Who do you think you are talking to, boy. |
He called you boy, ontheway. Those are fighting words. What say you? |
190,000 teachers been through the system here and this boy (ontheway) is the only one who has been fined. His boss probably gave him a 7-Eleven ice cream receipt and told him it was a fine. Boss stuck the money in his pocket and laughed. |
Naturally. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.
I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.
Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say. |
As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live. |
Who do you think you are talking to, boy. |
He called you boy, ontheway. Those are fighting words. What say you? |
190,000 teachers been through the system here and this boy (ontheway) is the only one who has been fined. His boss probably gave him a 7-Eleven ice cream receipt and told him it was a fine. Boss stuck the money in his pocket and laughed. |
Ah, reading comprehension. Well that explains it.
As I said, the letter came in my name from the education office with a fine for failure to attend. The wonjangnim had to pay the fine since I refused. Guess you couldn't understand that part when you tried to read it.
You probably also didn't get the part about how different cities and provinces only started holding these "training" meetings recently. For example, in Gyonggi, recently, maybe last year, was the first time for the English teaching, E2 visa holders, so it's still new and disorganized and Koreans are normally reluctant to issue fines and tickets. Other major areas haven't started yet. But in the more organized (maybe more authoritarian) parts of Korea it's a different strory.
I've met teachers who traveled 3 hours to a make up "training" session to avoid the fine, so it's no joke. One teacher whose attendance card was lost, although he was actually at the session, had to prove by other means that he was there to avoid the fine or alternate meeting requirement.
My guess is that being friendly with your local education office means they didn't make you come since you're not fluent in Korean. Other foreigner hogwan owners or co-owners might have a Korean spouse that attends for them or covers for them.
****
That fact that some people have made friendly arrangements and didn't have to go means nothing to the average teacher. And these are not for people with little study rooms in their apartments.
Worse, there are others who have never lived in one of the areas in Korea that holds the meetings, so they have never gotten one of the printed attendance cards, but still they make claims that they have never gone and never been fined. E2 teachers who don't work at hogwans don't get invited to hogwan "training" meetings and why would an E7 teacher be working at a hogwan? It's like a person who claims they've never had a speeding ticket in 15 years ... but they've never driven a car.
****
Savant objects to calling these meetings "training" sessions, which is understandable; they are a waste of time. So I will try to remember to use quotes for these "training" meetings.
The Korean meetings for hogwan owners, managers and teachers are just as bad according to my Korean friends who have to go. They also complain that there is no actual training. But they always make sure to be there. If they don't go, the education office will close down their schools. So, they will occasionally take turns, help each other out, and make sure that their friends are recorded as actually being there, that their attendance card is properly filed, and the 10,000 won fee paid.
*****
These meetings aren't just for E2 English teachers, but they are only for hogwans. (Public schools have their own training meetings.) These "training" meetings are for ALL hogwan owners, directors and teachers for Art, Music, Math, Korean etc. and for other languages. The foreigners teaching on E2s in hogwans in many areas have been left out because of the language barrier.
If you are "invited" as an E2 teacher to such a meeting however, you had better make sure that you are officially recorded as attending, that your attendance card or invitation is filed and your money is paid. It may be that no one remembers seeing you there at all, or not after the first break. But, depending on where you live, you can be fined or required to attend an alternate meeting if you miss your required meeting. You could also be fired since it is legally required.
If you are fired for failure to attend a legally a required "training" meeting, the Labor Office cannot help you. You will not be entitled to 30 days notice. However, if you relied on Ttompatz for his legal opinion, after being fired you may be able to sue him for damages for pretending to be a lawyer. But, you shouldn't count on that either. Best to just go and keep your job.
***** |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.
I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.
Claim what you will. I stand by my word.
. |
This follows my experience as well. I worked in a hog won from 2002-2005, and even had immi come by and check us - yet never once was this sort of thing mentioned (Gyyonggi).
Never heard of it until now. Never heard of it in person. |
Gyonggi is one of the areas that hasn't held the meetings at all in the past. |
That would explain it. I rarely venture out of Gyyongi/Seoul. |
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