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Mandatory training, Sat 19th?
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Savant



Joined: 25 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway is "on the way" to becoming the next biggest ass on these forums.

I know that I'll be enjoying my Sat 19th resting at home. I've attended only one of these meetings during my 6 years here and neither myself, other foreign teachers or my other schools faced any repercussions for anybody's non-attendance.

Is KAFLA still run by that criminal lady from Pagoda?
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nicwr2002



Joined: 17 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
wooden nickels wrote:
Stain wrote:
wooden nickels wrote:
ontheway wrote:
wooden nickels wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
8 years on an E2 and 7 years on an E7and I have never had any repercussion for not attending.

I know of NO TEACHER on an E2 (and I know thousands), other than your own claim here, who has ever had any negative repercussion for not attending one of these meetings.

Claim what you will. I stand by my word.

.


Same here. This is my second round in Korea, 10 years. I can easily say I've known hundreds of teachers on the E2, most of whom never attended one of these meetings, no repercussions.

I own, or have owned, several hagwons. Have been a member of the Hagwon Association, in the past. I have never attended the meetings and would recommend to others to not attend the meetings.

Just because the Education Office may take part in organizing one of these meetings, it doesn't mean one is legally bound to attend. I frequently discuss these types of matters with officials. As some other posters have mentioned, ignore a lot of what ontheway has to say.



As a hogwan owner the education office can close your hogwan for not attending - of course fulfillment of required duties and enforcement by the local education office depends on where you live.


Who do you think you are talking to, boy.


He called you boy, ontheway. Those are fighting words. What say you?


190,000 teachers been through the system here and this boy (ontheway) is the only one who has been fined. His boss probably gave him a 7-Eleven ice cream receipt and told him it was a fine. Boss stuck the money in his pocket and laughed.


Ah, reading comprehension. Well that explains it.

As I said, the letter came in my name from the education office with a fine for failure to attend. The wonjangnim had to pay the fine since I refused. Guess you couldn't understand that part when you tried to read it.

You probably also didn't get the part about how different cities and provinces only started holding these "training" meetings recently. For example, in Gyonggi, recently, maybe last year, was the first time for the English teaching, E2 visa holders, so it's still new and disorganized and Koreans are normally reluctant to issue fines and tickets. Other major areas haven't started yet. But in the more organized (maybe more authoritarian) parts of Korea it's a different strory.

I've met teachers who traveled 3 hours to a make up "training" session to avoid the fine, so it's no joke. One teacher whose attendance card was lost, although he was actually at the session, had to prove by other means that he was there to avoid the fine or alternate meeting requirement.

My guess is that being friendly with your local education office means they didn't make you come since you're not fluent in Korean. Other foreigner hogwan owners or co-owners might have a Korean spouse that attends for them or covers for them.

****
That fact that some people have made friendly arrangements and didn't have to go means nothing to the average teacher. And these are not for people with little study rooms in their apartments.

Worse, there are others who have never lived in one of the areas in Korea that holds the meetings, so they have never gotten one of the printed attendance cards, but still they make claims that they have never gone and never been fined. E2 teachers who don't work at hogwans don't get invited to hogwan "training" meetings and why would an E7 teacher be working at a hogwan? It's like a person who claims they've never had a speeding ticket in 15 years ... but they've never driven a car.


****

Savant objects to calling these meetings "training" sessions, which is understandable; they are a waste of time. So I will try to remember to use quotes for these "training" meetings.

The Korean meetings for hogwan owners, managers and teachers are just as bad according to my Korean friends who have to go. They also complain that there is no actual training. But they always make sure to be there. If they don't go, the education office will close down their schools. So, they will occasionally take turns, help each other out, and make sure that their friends are recorded as actually being there, that their attendance card is properly filed, and the 10,000 won fee paid.

*****

These meetings aren't just for E2 English teachers, but they are only for hogwans. (Public schools have their own training meetings.) These "training" meetings are for ALL hogwan owners, directors and teachers for Art, Music, Math, Korean etc. and for other languages. The foreigners teaching on E2s in hogwans in many areas have been left out because of the language barrier.

If you are "invited" as an E2 teacher to such a meeting however, you had better make sure that you are officially recorded as attending, that your attendance card or invitation is filed and your money is paid. It may be that no one remembers seeing you there at all, or not after the first break. But, depending on where you live, you can be fined or required to attend an alternate meeting if you miss your required meeting. You could also be fired since it is legally required.

If you are fired for failure to attend a legally a required "training" meeting, the Labor Office cannot help you. You will not be entitled to 30 days notice. However, if you relied on Ttompatz for his legal opinion, after being fired you may be able to sue him for damages for pretending to be a lawyer. But, you shouldn't count on that either. Best to just go and keep your job.

*****


What if the fine was from the Hagwon Assoc., but made to look like it came from the Office of Ed.?
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicwr2002 wrote:
What if the fine was from the Hagwon Assoc., but made to look like it came from the Office of Ed.?


They don't have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee nor does the MOE/POE without judicial intervention first.

.
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tophatcat



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savant wrote:
ontheway is "on the way" to becoming the next biggest ass on these forums.

I know that I'll be enjoying my Sat 19th resting at home. I've attended only one of these meetings during my 6 years here and neither myself, other foreign teachers or my other schools faced any repercussions for anybody's non-attendance.

Is KAFLA still run by that criminal lady from Pagoda?


I have an acquaintance who works for MOE. I've discussed this and other matters of importance with him. I can tell you, without doubt, that ontheway is full of cr**.
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nicwr2002



Joined: 17 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
nicwr2002 wrote:
What if the fine was from the Hagwon Assoc., but made to look like it came from the Office of Ed.?


They don't have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee nor does the MOE/POE without judicial intervention first.

.


I'm just pointing out that ontheway insists that he received a letter in the mail. If he is telling the truth, I question the authenticity of the letter and that he got swindled by his boss. Now, he is telling everyone false information. I agree with you ttompatz.
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt there's an actual law but, in ontheway's defense, sometimes hagwon owners can influence government agencies to harass foreign workers about breaking laws that don't actually exist.

Whenever I leave or enter through customs and immigration at Incheon International Airport, I always get detained by Immigration and they inform me my former boss at Wonderland reported me for not having unemployment insurance, when I'm on an E-2 visa.

These agencies can't really make you pay or have you arrested for breaking laws that don't exist. All they can do is waste your time and theirs. Just be patient and calm and they'll give up.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
nicwr2002 wrote:
What if the fine was from the Hagwon Assoc., but made to look like it came from the Office of Ed.?


They don't have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee nor does the MOE/POE without judicial intervention first.

.


Now that you've backed down from your other silliness:

1) That you were never cited for not attending the special "training" meetings for foreign hogwan teachers on E2 visas who are registered at their local office of education was because you were never invited.

2) That you were never invited was because you were not supposed to be invited:

a) Only certain parts of Korea were in compliance with the law, since this is enforced locally
b) Only hogwan teachers who are on E2 visas, foreign, and legally registered at the local education office living in these areas were invited. (Many E2s are never legally registered with the local education office.)
c) You were on an E7 visa

... we can deal with your silliness about legal authority.

Your carefully worded statement is intended to mislead: the fact that they may not have the authority (your claim) to levy fines against employees does not mean that they don't have authority to levy fines against hogwans and owners. In fact they do so quite often. But, do they actually know they don't have authority to levy against employees? If they think they can they will. And in fact, it is quite common for government officials and bodies in Korea and the US to take illegal actions that they have no authority to take, even when they should or do know better. (EZE has given a good Korean example.)

(But, yeah, I suppose Canada is perfect. In Korea it's common. In the US it's the national governmental sport.)

Since it's common, it is best to avoid being put into that situation. And even if the school is fined and not the teacher, it is the teacher who failed to comply with the law and the teacher can legally be fired for breaking the law.

*****
In the US I was in charge of legal action for several businesses, non-profits, political organizations and public assistance groups.

Fun example from my time in DC:

One night I got a phone call from a jail. It was 2:00 am. Two young men had been legally petitioning to get the signatures required to put a candidate on the ballot for an upcoming general election in the State of Maryland. They had been arrested while petitioning, held without charges and without a phone call. Since they had broken no actual law, the police didn't know what to charge them with and were afraid to admit their mistake and let them go. So they had just held them in jail for a day and a half.

So, one of them managed to sneak to a phone and call me. During the call the cops spotted him, he dropped the phone but did not hang up, they slammed him around as I listened, and then the phone went dead. They were in the town of Dundalk.

So, I got out my list of attorneys who were available for emergencies such as this (one of my duties) found one nearby in MD and called. I'd never met him before, but I woke him and told him what was happening. He got to Dundalk by 3:00 am. The cops then had to come up with a charge, so at that time they decided to charge the young men with loitering. This is an illegal charge in the US, having been thrown out by the Supreme Court, but no matter, they filed the illegl charges. In any case, the young men had been undertaking a legal, political campaign and collecting signatures as required by the Secretary of State for candidates for elections in the State of Maryland. This does not meet the definition of loitering.

The judge (a Dundalk local judge) at the arraignment hearing demanded $2000 bail. When the atty said it was outrageous, the judge threatened to make it $1 million.

The case went to trial. We had an ACLU atty for the young men - pro bono. Now with a real judge the tables turned. He called the defense and prosecution to the bench and informed both sides that essentially the cops were wrong and if the trial went forward he would be likely to rule not guilty in a pre-trial motion. The cops and prosecutor then made a quick deal to end the trial and avoid being sued.

Sure, the cops had no authority to make the arrest.

But, the two men had been in jail a day and a half. They had to stay in MD several months until the trial and spend time and money on travel and meeting with attys. They lost valuable work time in other states they had been scheduled to travel to. It took considerable effort on the part of the ACLU and several attys, as well as numerous campaign volunteers plus my office to arrange for the fight to free the petitioners.

Why did it happen?

Essentially it was bad legal advice coupled with a cocky attitude. The petitioners had been told that they had a Constitutional Right to be there and to petition there. True enough. But what good is that against a dumb cop who doesn't care about or even know that he didn't have the "legal authority" to make the arrest?

The cop came up to them on a public street during a street fair and told them to leave. They should have just left. Come back later or move to a different spot in the large area. Instead one of the young men insisted on telling the cop that he had the right to be there. The cop didn't have the authority to stop him. He told the cop, "If you don't like it, arrest me." The cop did. And grabbed the other who was standing nearby as well.

Governments routinely act without legal authority.

The best legal advice is to attend these "training" meetings. You are legally required to go. You can be legally required to attend an alternate meeting if you miss the first. You can be legally fired with no recourse if you fail to attend. You can be fined even if the education office has no "legal authority" to fine you, and you will have to either pay (unless someone pays for you as in my case) or spend your own time and money to fight the fine.

It doesn't pay to challenge dumb cops or dumb bureaucrats over their "authority."
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goat



Joined: 23 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following some of the posts from ontheway. You would think he would realize that he has turned himself into the class clown. At some point the guy should just stop while he is behind. No need in digging a deeper ditch for himself. When everyone is laughing at him, one would think that maybe he would notice how ridiculous he looks. And at some point, he isn't funny.
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frankhenry



Joined: 13 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savant wrote:
ontheway is "on the way" to becoming the next biggest ass on these forums.

I know that I'll be enjoying my Sat 19th resting at home. I've attended only one of these meetings during my 6 years here and neither myself, other foreign teachers or my other schools faced any repercussions for anybody's non-attendance.

Is KAFLA still run by that criminal lady from Pagoda?


ontheway has already arrived.
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wooden nickels



Joined: 23 May 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
nicwr2002 wrote:
What if the fine was from the Hagwon Assoc., but made to look like it came from the Office of Ed.?


They don't have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee nor does the MOE/POE without judicial intervention first.

.


Now that you've backed down from your other silliness:

1) That you were never cited for not attending the special "training" meetings for foreign hogwan teachers on E2 visas who are registered at their local office of education was because you were never invited.

2) That you were never invited was because you were not supposed to be invited:

a) Only certain parts of Korea were in compliance with the law, since this is enforced locally
b) Only hogwan teachers who are on E2 visas, foreign, and legally registered at the local education office living in these areas were invited. (Many E2s are never legally registered with the local education office.)
c) You were on an E7 visa

... we can deal with your silliness about legal authority.

Your carefully worded statement is intended to mislead: the fact that they may not have the authority (your claim) to levy fines against employees does not mean that they don't have authority to levy fines against hogwans and owners. In fact they do so quite often. But, do they actually know they don't have authority to levy against employees? If they think they can they will. And in fact, it is quite common for government officials and bodies in Korea and the US to take illegal actions that they have no authority to take, even when they should or do know better. (EZE has given a good Korean example.)

(But, yeah, I suppose Canada is perfect. In Korea it's common. In the US it's the national governmental sport.)

Since it's common, it is best to avoid being put into that situation. And even if the school is fined and not the teacher, it is the teacher who failed to comply with the law and the teacher can legally be fired for breaking the law.

*****
In the US I was in charge of legal action for several businesses, non-profits, political organizations and public assistance groups.

Fun example from my time in DC:

One night I got a phone call from a jail. It was 2:00 am. Two young men had been legally petitioning to get the signatures required to put a candidate on the ballot for an upcoming general election in the State of Maryland. They had been arrested while petitioning, held without charges and without a phone call. Since they had broken no actual law, the police didn't know what to charge them with and were afraid to admit their mistake and let them go. So they had just held them in jail for a day and a half.

So, one of them managed to sneak to a phone and call me. During the call the cops spotted him, he dropped the phone but did not hang up, they slammed him around as I listened, and then the phone went dead. They were in the town of Dundalk.

So, I got out my list of attorneys who were available for emergencies such as this (one of my duties) found one nearby in MD and called. I'd never met him before, but I woke him and told him what was happening. He got to Dundalk by 3:00 am. The cops then had to come up with a charge, so at that time they decided to charge the young men with loitering. This is an illegal charge in the US, having been thrown out by the Supreme Court, but no matter, they filed the illegl charges. In any case, the young men had been undertaking a legal, political campaign and collecting signatures as required by the Secretary of State for candidates for elections in the State of Maryland. This does not meet the definition of loitering.

The judge (a Dundalk local judge) at the arraignment hearing demanded $2000 bail. When the atty said it was outrageous, the judge threatened to make it $1 million.

The case went to trial. We had an ACLU atty for the young men - pro bono. Now with a real judge the tables turned. He called the defense and prosecution to the bench and informed both sides that essentially the cops were wrong and if the trial went forward he would be likely to rule not guilty in a pre-trial motion. The cops and prosecutor then made a quick deal to end the trial and avoid being sued.

Sure, the cops had no authority to make the arrest.

But, the two men had been in jail a day and a half. They had to stay in MD several months until the trial and spend time and money on travel and meeting with attys. They lost valuable work time in other states they had been scheduled to travel to. It took considerable effort on the part of the ACLU and several attys, as well as numerous campaign volunteers plus my office to arrange for the fight to free the petitioners.

Why did it happen?

Essentially it was bad legal advice coupled with a cocky attitude. The petitioners had been told that they had a Constitutional Right to be there and to petition there. True enough. But what good is that against a dumb cop who doesn't care about or even know that he didn't have the "legal authority" to make the arrest?

The cop came up to them on a public street during a street fair and told them to leave. They should have just left. Come back later or move to a different spot in the large area. Instead one of the young men insisted on telling the cop that he had the right to be there. The cop didn't have the authority to stop him. He told the cop, "If you don't like it, arrest me." The cop did. And grabbed the other who was standing nearby as well.

Governments routinely act without legal authority.

The best legal advice is to attend these "training" meetings. You are legally required to go. You can be legally required to attend an alternate meeting if you miss the first. You can be legally fired with no recourse if you fail to attend. You can be fined even if the education office has no "legal authority" to fine you, and you will have to either pay (unless someone pays for you as in my case) or spend your own time and money to fight the fine.

It doesn't pay to challenge dumb cops or dumb bureaucrats over their "authority."


What's all this garbage story about what you did in the US? At least you should have said when you were in charge of the embassy in Sweden or back when you were working as a double agent spy for the Queen, Agent 009.

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being excellent, I give your story somewhere around a 1. You are obviously blowing smoke now.
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DaeguNL



Joined: 08 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
nicwr2002 wrote:
What if the fine was from the Hagwon Assoc., but made to look like it came from the Office of Ed.?


They don't have the legal authority to levy a fine against an employee nor does the MOE/POE without judicial intervention first.

.


Now that you've backed down from your other silliness:

1) That you were never cited for not attending the special "training" meetings for foreign hogwan teachers on E2 visas who are registered at their local office of education was because you were never invited.

2) That you were never invited was because you were not supposed to be invited:

a) Only certain parts of Korea were in compliance with the law, since this is enforced locally
b) Only hogwan teachers who are on E2 visas, foreign, and legally registered at the local education office living in these areas were invited. (Many E2s are never legally registered with the local education office.)
c) You were on an E7 visa

... we can deal with your silliness about legal authority.

Your carefully worded statement is intended to mislead: the fact that they may not have the authority (your claim) to levy fines against employees does not mean that they don't have authority to levy fines against hogwans and owners. In fact they do so quite often. But, do they actually know they don't have authority to levy against employees? If they think they can they will. And in fact, it is quite common for government officials and bodies in Korea and the US to take illegal actions that they have no authority to take, even when they should or do know better. (EZE has given a good Korean example.)

(But, yeah, I suppose Canada is perfect. In Korea it's common. In the US it's the national governmental sport.)

Since it's common, it is best to avoid being put into that situation. And even if the school is fined and not the teacher, it is the teacher who failed to comply with the law and the teacher can legally be fired for breaking the law.

*****
In the US I was in charge of legal action for several businesses, non-profits, political organizations and public assistance groups.

Fun example from my time in DC:

One night I got a phone call from a jail. It was 2:00 am. Two young men had been legally petitioning to get the signatures required to put a candidate on the ballot for an upcoming general election in the State of Maryland. They had been arrested while petitioning, held without charges and without a phone call. Since they had broken no actual law, the police didn't know what to charge them with and were afraid to admit their mistake and let them go. So they had just held them in jail for a day and a half.

So, one of them managed to sneak to a phone and call me. During the call the cops spotted him, he dropped the phone but did not hang up, they slammed him around as I listened, and then the phone went dead. They were in the town of Dundalk.

So, I got out my list of attorneys who were available for emergencies such as this (one of my duties) found one nearby in MD and called. I'd never met him before, but I woke him and told him what was happening. He got to Dundalk by 3:00 am. The cops then had to come up with a charge, so at that time they decided to charge the young men with loitering. This is an illegal charge in the US, having been thrown out by the Supreme Court, but no matter, they filed the illegl charges. In any case, the young men had been undertaking a legal, political campaign and collecting signatures as required by the Secretary of State for candidates for elections in the State of Maryland. This does not meet the definition of loitering.

The judge (a Dundalk local judge) at the arraignment hearing demanded $2000 bail. When the atty said it was outrageous, the judge threatened to make it $1 million.

The case went to trial. We had an ACLU atty for the young men - pro bono. Now with a real judge the tables turned. He called the defense and prosecution to the bench and informed both sides that essentially the cops were wrong and if the trial went forward he would be likely to rule not guilty in a pre-trial motion. The cops and prosecutor then made a quick deal to end the trial and avoid being sued.

Sure, the cops had no authority to make the arrest.

But, the two men had been in jail a day and a half. They had to stay in MD several months until the trial and spend time and money on travel and meeting with attys. They lost valuable work time in other states they had been scheduled to travel to. It took considerable effort on the part of the ACLU and several attys, as well as numerous campaign volunteers plus my office to arrange for the fight to free the petitioners.

Why did it happen?

Essentially it was bad legal advice coupled with a cocky attitude. The petitioners had been told that they had a Constitutional Right to be there and to petition there. True enough. But what good is that against a dumb cop who doesn't care about or even know that he didn't have the "legal authority" to make the arrest?

The cop came up to them on a public street during a street fair and told them to leave. They should have just left. Come back later or move to a different spot in the large area. Instead one of the young men insisted on telling the cop that he had the right to be there. The cop didn't have the authority to stop him. He told the cop, "If you don't like it, arrest me." The cop did. And grabbed the other who was standing nearby as well.

Governments routinely act without legal authority.

The best legal advice is to attend these "training" meetings. You are legally required to go. You can be legally required to attend an alternate meeting if you miss the first. You can be legally fired with no recourse if you fail to attend. You can be fined even if the education office has no "legal authority" to fine you, and you will have to either pay (unless someone pays for you as in my case) or spend your own time and money to fight the fine.

It doesn't pay to challenge dumb cops or dumb bureaucrats over their "authority."


This couldn't be more irrelevant to this topic. I have been invited to the training
3 times during my 5 years..I attended once, and skipped twice. I would guess about 8 or 9 of the 20 or so foreign coworkers attended. Nothing happened to those who skipped, not even a warning. I will never return to it again, as it is a complete joke. It is a forum for the police to remind us not to sexually assault kids, and they throw on a performance to mask that.
I am no longer on an E-2 visa, so I dont know if I will get invited. I asked my work about it and they had no idea what I was talking about.
No one is gonna get fired or fined for not attending this BS
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaeguNL wrote:
ontheway wrote:


It doesn't pay to challenge dumb cops or dumb bureaucrats over their "authority."


This couldn't be more irrelevant to this topic. I have been invited to the training
3 times during my 5 years..I attended once, and skipped twice. I would guess about 8 or 9 of the 20 or so foreign coworkers attended. Nothing happened to those who skipped, not even a warning. I will never return to it again, as it is a complete joke. It is a forum for the police to remind us not to sexually assault kids, and they throw on a performance to mask that.
I am no longer on an E-2 visa, so I dont know if I will get invited. I asked my work about it and they had no idea what I was talking about.
No one is gonna get fired or fined for not attending this BS


The fact that you lived in an area that let you escape without a penalty for missing the meetings means little. The fact that you currently live in an area that still doesn't hold these meetings is your good fortune. The meetings are useless, there is no training, and they are a waste of time - no argument from me.

But it's your experience that is not relevant to the topic. It doesn't follow logically.

You may have gone speeding down the highway, been stopped by the police and you were not issued a ticket, or maybe you weren't stopped at all. It doesn't mean that the next guy won't get a speeding ticket or that you won't get a ticket on another stretch of road.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wooden nickels wrote:
ontheway wrote:


It doesn't pay to challenge dumb cops or dumb bureaucrats over their "authority."


What's all this garbage story about what you did in the US? At least you should have said when you were in charge of the embassy in Sweden or back when you were working as a double agent spy for the Queen, Agent 009.

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being excellent, I give your story somewhere around a 1. You are obviously blowing smoke now.


My case summary proves the point and has left you with no response.

I can give you several other relevant examples of legal cases I managed that can demonstrate similar results of govenments acting without authority. Two of the cases I managed overturned state law and set legal precedents: one that ordered specific performance of a contract, one concerning the rights of the homeless to register a motor vehicle without a residence. There was a very interesting case invoving the US Customs Service confiscating goods from travelers at airports and the border without any legal authority to do so, which they were required to return. The most damning case involved the IRS illegally converting funds to their own use by cashing checks that were not made out to the IRS, no money was owing to the IRS, and never mailed to the IRS, but misdirected. Turns out it was IRS policy to take all funds - an illegal act that would result in imprisonment if performed by anyone else. We represented a DC couple who were in the process of foreclosure because the IRS as a matter of policy - illegally and without legal authority - was cashing all checks that came into their possession - tens of thousands of them over several years. Just opening these letters was illegal since they were neither adressed to the IRS nor returned letters from the IRS.


You claim to actually own a hogwan which no one here challenges, but you could be blowing smoke. It could be your spouse owns the hogwan or it's really a study room, or a fantasy. You have no reason that I know of to lie, but you haven't revealed all the facts. In any case you would not be invited to a teachers' meeting if you own the school - it would be the owners' meeting, held all in Korean. So, sure you could be excused or you may live in a non-compliant area of Korea. You have added no facts at all, nothing but your own doubts, to the entire thread.
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goat



Joined: 23 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
DaeguNL wrote:
ontheway wrote:


It doesn't pay to challenge dumb cops or dumb bureaucrats over their "authority."


This couldn't be more irrelevant to this topic. I have been invited to the training
3 times during my 5 years..I attended once, and skipped twice. I would guess about 8 or 9 of the 20 or so foreign coworkers attended. Nothing happened to those who skipped, not even a warning. I will never return to it again, as it is a complete joke. It is a forum for the police to remind us not to sexually assault kids, and they throw on a performance to mask that.
I am no longer on an E-2 visa, so I dont know if I will get invited. I asked my work about it and they had no idea what I was talking about.
No one is gonna get fired or fined for not attending this BS


The fact that you lived in an area that let you escape without a penalty for missing the meetings means little. The fact that you currently live in an area that still doesn't hold these meetings is your good fortune. The meetings are useless, there is no training, and they are a waste of time - no argument from me.

But it's your experience that is not relevant to the topic. It doesn't follow logically.

You may have gone speeding down the highway, been stopped by the police and you were not issued a ticket, or maybe you weren't stopped at all. It doesn't mean that the next guy won't get a speeding ticket or that you won't get a ticket on another stretch of road.


Are you the only teacher who has been fined for missing one of these meetings?
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goat wrote:
ontheway wrote:
DaeguNL wrote:
ontheway wrote:


It doesn't pay to challenge dumb cops or dumb bureaucrats over their "authority."


This couldn't be more irrelevant to this topic. I have been invited to the training
3 times during my 5 years..I attended once, and skipped twice. I would guess about 8 or 9 of the 20 or so foreign coworkers attended. Nothing happened to those who skipped, not even a warning. I will never return to it again, as it is a complete joke. It is a forum for the police to remind us not to sexually assault kids, and they throw on a performance to mask that.
I am no longer on an E-2 visa, so I dont know if I will get invited. I asked my work about it and they had no idea what I was talking about.
No one is gonna get fired or fined for not attending this BS


The fact that you lived in an area that let you escape without a penalty for missing the meetings means little. The fact that you currently live in an area that still doesn't hold these meetings is your good fortune. The meetings are useless, there is no training, and they are a waste of time - no argument from me.

But it's your experience that is not relevant to the topic. It doesn't follow logically.

You may have gone speeding down the highway, been stopped by the police and you were not issued a ticket, or maybe you weren't stopped at all. It doesn't mean that the next guy won't get a speeding ticket or that you won't get a ticket on another stretch of road.


Are you the only teacher who has been fined for missing one of these meetings?


I have no idea. I met teachers who were attending a make up meeting as required by the education office. I knew a teacher who was threatened with a fine or make up meeting by the education office, but he had actually attended and was eventually able to produce witnesses, both Korean and foreign, that he had been there (he either forgot to turn in his attendance form or it was lost).

It would be nice if these were no longer required. Teachers in the City of Seoul may never have to attend, they may never hold one of these meetings there. Some places seem very disorganized in their record keeping by the experience of others listed here, so the education offices under those conditions may be unable to pursue or even identify non-attendees. But at the present time, for teachers who get one of the meeting notices with their name on it that is required to be turned in at the event to prove attendance, the best advice is to go yourself, you can read, text, play games, even nap ... but at least make sure that your card is filed and your fee paid. Even better to have a witness that you were actually there.
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