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Buddist treatment for mental illness?
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Lucas



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject: Buddist treatment for mental illness? Reply with quote

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2014/07/116_160484.html

Quote:
The monk, from the Jogye Order of Korean Buddhism, was indicted in April for raping and inflicting fatal injuries with a wooden instrument on a woman, 20, "in order to cure her depression." She died of shock.

The monk was also charged with raping and beating another woman to "exorcise all the ghosts from her body


Six years...
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chickenpie



Joined: 24 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You obviously just don't understand the unique and special culture here.

Time for you to go home.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first arrived in korea, i always gave money to to the monks collecting or bought stupid crap at the temples to support them. Then i started to realise the money wasn't necessarily going to a good cause. Heres a few reasons why;

The incident a few years back with the gambling monks in the casino.

Ive stood in home-plus more than once and seen them stocking up on goodies including beer and Pringles etc. - abstinence?

A lot of the monks wear expensive running shoes.

A lot of the monks have smart phones.

A lot of the monks have big expensive cars, more so in the big, touristy temples.

Ive read/heard various reports similar to the op, including reports that monks have girlfriends- this goes against the principles of abstinence/celibacy.

Ive seen more than one drunk.

While I realise that I am only talking about a certain percentage of them, they don't generally seem to fit into the mould of a person 'attempting to attain a higher state of existence'. They seem rather on the whole, to be just a bunch of adjoshhis who, to borrow the current buzz word, feel 'entitled' to do what ever they please.

Im not giving my money to support that, even if it is just a minority. Their temples can fall down for all I care now, which is a shame...
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Sister Ray



Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lost all respect for Korean monks shortly after my initial arrival in the early 2000s. I was walking past the old Marche restaurant in COEX where I noticed two monks seated at a table, each with a huge plate of steak in front of him and about 10 bankbooks on the table which they were assiduously checking.

It was pretty clear they were about as close to achieving "enlightenment" as the crackpot evangelists with the megaphones and "Burn in Hell" sandwich boards.
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RangerMcGreggor



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:

Ive read/heard various reports similar to the op, including reports that monks have girlfriends- this goes against the principles of abstinence/celibacy.


Some Buddhist sects do allow for relationships and marriage in Korea. It's a leftover from Japanese control (Japanese Buddhism allows marriage and this was enforced on Korean sects). Some went back to the old ways but other temples kept it. It's rare but not unheard of.


But yeah, this is sorta of a reminder that Buddhism isn't immune to the corruption like any church is. Actually, I would say Buddhism is a bigger risk for scammers because most westerners aren't familiar with it enough to spot a quack so it's easy for con artists to get by (they are all over SE asia). From my understanding, the Jogye sect in Korea has a long history of being hit with nasty scandals like this.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Taego Order (the second largest order in Korean Buddhism) allows its monks to marry. I also don't think monks owning smart phones is especially damning. Smart phones are relatively cheap and high in utility; bemoaning a monk daring to use a smart phone is too reminiscent of right wing extremists in the states insisting that people aren't poor because they have televisions or refridgerators. Expensive cars are more problematic, as was that gambling scandal.
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RangerMcGreggor



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
The Taego Order (the second largest order in Korean Buddhism) allows its monks to marry. I also don't think monks owning smart phones is especially damning. Smart phones are relatively cheap and high in utility; bemoaning a monk daring to use a smart phone is too reminiscent of right wing extremists in the states insisting that people aren't poor because they have televisions or refridgerators. Expensive cars are more problematic, as was that gambling scandal.


There is a common misconception that Buddhism is suppose to be ascetic (IE deny all Earthly things and technology) which isn't true. Buddhism is monastic but is suppose to be more moderate than blatant asceticism. There is nothing weird about a monk using a smartphone or having expensive things if it's useful or necessary.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RangerMcGreggor wrote:
Fox wrote:
The Taego Order (the second largest order in Korean Buddhism) allows its monks to marry. I also don't think monks owning smart phones is especially damning. Smart phones are relatively cheap and high in utility; bemoaning a monk daring to use a smart phone is too reminiscent of right wing extremists in the states insisting that people aren't poor because they have televisions or refridgerators. Expensive cars are more problematic, as was that gambling scandal.


There is a common misconception that Buddhism is suppose to be ascetic (IE deny all Earthly things and technology) which isn't true. Buddhism is monastic but is suppose to be more moderate than blatant asceticism. There is nothing weird about a monk using a smartphone or having expensive things if it's useful or necessary.


Well, I shall read up further on the information yourself and Fox have provided. Its interesting and I hadnt known about that before posting.

That being said, your argument about the smart phones doesn't sway me at all.

There is a difference between necessity and luxury. While they are relatively cheap to buy (smart phones), there are cheaper, second hand, older versions of hand phones that one could purchase that don't require such large sums of money for a payment every month.

You can buy cheap shoes. There is very little argument for buying a pair of Nike air max over a pair of cheap shoes unless you want to incredibly pedantic.
These people are not professional runners or need constant access to Naver so that they can stay up to date with current affairs (which is another thing - Korean news stories/journalism/websites seem to be very liberal with the truth, so why would you need to have constant access to the internet anyway - most, relevant buddist document must surely be available at the temple?)

Anyway, how do you define necessity?

I dont have a smart phone and get by. I refuse to buy a new one because of the ethical implications of a disposable society/mining in the Congo etc etc. So I have an old phone which is adequate for my needs. It isnt necessary for me to have a smart phone and I work in an environment that demands access to the internet more than a monk does.

quote
There is a common misconception that Buddhism is suppose to be ascetic (IE deny all Earthly things and technology) which isn't true.

Im not talking about buddists (or Christians) - Im talking about buddist monks who live in temples and who as far as I know, knock on peoples doors asking for a glass of water, dont carry money, and get free bus rides.


Anyway, I dont think any order of monk is supposed to gamble or rape - this kind of behavior is too common place and inherent in an already warped system.
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RangerMcGreggor



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:


There is a difference between necessity and luxury. While they are relatively cheap to buy (smart phones), there are cheaper, second hand, older versions of hand phones that one could purchase that don't require such large sums of money for a payment every month. a


... Have you ever actually bought a smartphone in Korea? The price difference between a smartphone and non-smartphone plan in Korea is pretty non-existent these days. Hell, smartphones are sometimes cheaper in the longrun because you can use kakao talk for no cost while you have to pay for text messages and phonecalls on a non-smartphone. Throw in possible work and business related advantages of having a smart phone, then yes a smartphone would be better investment.

Quote:
You can buy cheap shoes. There is very little argument for buying a pair of Nike air max over a pair of cheap shoes unless you want to incredibly pedantic.


"You get what you pay for."

There are certain things where often times the more expensive thing isn't better than the cheaper thing (Y HALO THER HDMI CABLES) but there are times where there is a huge difference. Cheap shoes generally don't last long and are not that comfortable compared to a good expensive pair. Seriously, a good $200 pair of shoes can last a couple years AND make your work life easier depending on your lifestyle while cheap shoes can actually cost you MORE money in the long run for less quality.
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RangerMcGreggor



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:


There is a difference between necessity and luxury. While they are relatively cheap to buy (smart phones), there are cheaper, second hand, older versions of hand phones that one could purchase that don't require such large sums of money for a payment every month. a


... Have you ever actually bought a smartphone in Korea? The price difference between a smartphone and non-smartphone plan in Korea is pretty non-existent these days. Hell, smartphones are sometimes cheaper in the longrun because you can use kakao talk for no cost while you have to pay for text messages and phonecalls on a non-smartphone. Throw in possible work and business related advantages of having a smart phone, then yes a smartphone would be better investment.

Quote:
You can buy cheap shoes. There is very little argument for buying a pair of Nike air max over a pair of cheap shoes unless you want to incredibly pedantic.


"You get what you pay for."

There are certain things where often times the more expensive thing isn't better than the cheaper thing (Y HALO THER HDMI CABLES) but there are times where there is a huge difference. Cheap shoes generally don't last long and are not that comfortable compared to a good expensive pair. Seriously, a good $200 pair of shoes can last a couple years AND make your work life easier depending on your lifestyle while cheap shoes can actually cost you MORE money in the long run for less quality.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RangerMcGreggor wrote:
le-paul wrote:


There is a difference between necessity and luxury. While they are relatively cheap to buy (smart phones), there are cheaper, second hand, older versions of hand phones that one could purchase that don't require such large sums of money for a payment every month. a


... Have you ever actually bought a smartphone in Korea? The price difference between a smartphone and non-smartphone plan in Korea is pretty non-existent these days. Hell, smartphones are sometimes cheaper in the longrun because you can use kakao talk for no cost while you have to pay for text messages and phonecalls on a non-smartphone. Throw in possible work and business related advantages of having a smart phone, then yes a smartphone would be better investment.

Quote:
You can buy cheap shoes. There is very little argument for buying a pair of Nike air max over a pair of cheap shoes unless you want to incredibly pedantic.


"You get what you pay for."

There are certain things where often times the more expensive thing isn't better than the cheaper thing (Y HALO THER HDMI CABLES) but there are times where there is a huge difference. Cheap shoes generally don't last long and are not that comfortable compared to a good expensive pair. Seriously, a good $200 pair of shoes can last a couple years AND make your work life easier depending on your lifestyle while cheap shoes can actually cost you MORE money in the long run for less quality.


Point one - no I havent. Like I said, I have a (personal) issue with buying new things or replacing them when they could be fixed. I bought my phone second hand 4 years ago for 20,000. I pay about 10,000 every 1 or 2 months for credit for it.

Point two - I knew you would say that - thats why I said about being pedantic beforehand - you still went ahead and did it anyway.

I have a pair of shoes that I bought for 10,000 that I have used at the fitness centre for the last 5 years and with some dry cleaning, are fine.

The only time I would deem it necessary to buy brand names are when they have a specific purpose (eg climbing shoes/shoes for a marathon/football or something). Your argument is lazy and typical consumerist regurgitation.

Why are you talking in dollars anyway? I dont know what country youre from so the example is invalid. Are you from Taiwan? If so, 200 dollars isnt very much.
Regardless, a 200,000 won pair of shoes may or may not last 2 years just as a pair of 5,000 won, sale, ugly market stall shoes may last 2 years. The point is, the yellow and green ones arent all that pretty and dont match the grey robes.

Of course it pays to get better quality (eg tyres on your car) - but a label doesnt necessarily define that. I know that because I have worked in factories where we have made one product but packaged it differently, and and marked it up from between 10 and 200 percent.

Why am I arguing about fecking shoes anyway!!!! Evil or Very Mad

Youd have to have been living in a cave for the last 300 years to honestly believe that you usually get what you pay for. Thats called marketing -its a whole science.
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Kepler



Joined: 24 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Buddist treatment for mental illness? Reply with quote

Lucas wrote:


Six years...

Six years for two rapes and a murder....

In contrast, a US soldier got ten years for rape.

"SEOUL, South Korea — A South Korean court sentenced an American Army private to 10 years in prison on Tuesday for raping an 18-year-old South Korean woman, the most severe such ruling in almost 20 years."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/world/asia/american-soldier-sentenced-for-raping-a-south-korean-woman.html?_r=0
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may or may not be right on shoes, but on smartphones I'm not sure you are grasping the degree of features they have. Heck, even that bastion of the Mesozoic, the U.S. Suprem Court, grasped how fundamentally different and powerful smartphones are in their recent decision of Riley v. California.

And for starters it might just be cheaper. Already we have the examples of msg. services that dont charge a per msg fee. How about banking? How much time do you spend having to make transfers by commuting to the bank? Remember, time is money. Add to that the amount of time lost due to lack of information and so on. What about data transfers and ebooks? Phone-as-GPS and black box?

Anyways this reminds me of ppl who are refuse to ever try the KTX and stick to the bus. KTX is so expensive they say. But of course they fail to calculate the time saved vs. their hourly wage and the resulting opportunity cost. Congrats. In order to save 11,000 win you lost an hour and a half of your life and the opportunity to make well more than 11,000 won. Its not being thrifty, it's being obstinant, unimaginative, short-sighted, and afraid of the new and unfamiliar.

But I agree with the shoes and a lot of other things. Its all made at the same Bangladeshi factory out of the same farm factory leather.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
You may or may not be right on shoes, but on smartphones I'm not sure you are grasping the degree of features they have. Heck, even that bastion of the Mesozoic, the U.S. Suprem Court, grasped how fundamentally different and powerful smartphones are in their recent decision of Riley v. California.

And for starters it might just be cheaper. Already we have the examples of msg. services that dont charge a per msg fee. How about banking? How much time do you spend having to make transfers by commuting to the bank? Remember, time is money. Add to that the amount of time lost due to lack of information and so on. What about data transfers and ebooks? Phone-as-GPS and black box?

Anyways this reminds me of ppl who are refuse to ever try the KTX and stick to the bus. KTX is so expensive they say. But of course they fail to calculate the time saved vs. their hourly wage and the resulting opportunity cost. Congrats. In order to save 11,000 win you lost an hour and a half of your life and the opportunity to make well more than 11,000 won. Its not being thrifty, it's being obstinant, unimaginative, short-sighted, and afraid of the new and unfamiliar.

But I agree with the shoes and a lot of other things. Its all made at the same Bangladeshi factory out of the same farm factory leather.


Again, what you are saying is irrelevant because my original point is that Buddhist monks dont need smartphones.

Thats BUDDHIST MONKS.
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r2b2ct



Joined: 14 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a Buddhist monk personally. He has a smart phone. He uses it to take pictures of various places he's been and share them with people he knows. He uses kakao a lot to do this. He is an extremely nice person too. Like the sort of person you speculate is an alien because of how nice he is. I think the smart phone is helpful for him.
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