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More dead Americans.....
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Lucas



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: More dead Americans..... Reply with quote

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2686838/Five-dead-two-injured-shooting-Houston-home-police-hunt-family-member-suspect.html

four children.... Crying or Very sad
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

waiting for replies from the gun happy patriots who will insist that the children needed guns as well to protect themselves.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But guns are needed in the home for self protection from outside intruders, no?

Oh, it was a family member.... oops.

.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not saying that guns don't raise the risk of this, but this kind of thing can happen anywhere and you don't need a gun. Shafia murders there Canada? Or even the Yates killings in the U.S. Crazy is crazy.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are suggesting that the US has a disproportionate number of crazies rather than it being a gun issue?

.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
So you are suggesting that the US has a disproportionate number of crazies rather than it being a gun issue?

.


Who knows. But I'm going to suggest your omnipresence in these threads involving dead Americans is creepy and untoward.
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optik404



Joined: 24 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he didn't have access to guns, I'm sure they would have gone on living a normal life. He couldn't possibly use a knife or a bathtub.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
So you are suggesting that the US has a disproportionate number of crazies rather than it being a gun issue?

.


Who knows. But I'm going to suggest your omnipresence in these threads involving dead Americans is creepy and untoward.


Nah.... just sport -

Some people troll for bass. Some troll for salmon.
I'm just out trolling for indoctrinated, nationalistic, ethnocentric, gun nuts. There's no shortage of them in here.

.
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yodanole



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: La Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You probably don't really need a gun to slaughter children ....
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Old Painless



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
Kuros wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
So you are suggesting that the US has a disproportionate number of crazies rather than it being a gun issue?

.


Who knows. But I'm going to suggest your omnipresence in these threads involving dead Americans is creepy and untoward.


Nah....

.



Well shoot, since Tomphatz advocates bombing the American congress, why not blow up himself and all his students at the"new school" he runs? That would be much more interesting to read about imo.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
Kuros wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
So you are suggesting that the US has a disproportionate number of crazies rather than it being a gun issue?

.


Who knows. But I'm going to suggest your omnipresence in these threads involving dead Americans is creepy and untoward.


Nah.... just sport -

Some people troll for bass. Some troll for salmon.
I'm just out trolling for indoctrinated, nationalistic, ethnocentric, gun nuts. There's no shortage of them in here.

.


Actually, far from the rabid, deranged pro-gun ranting you imagine yourself arguing against, most posters here who have not agreed with you have taken a more nuanced approach and have been keen to point out the legal difficulties in banning guns, the historical reasons behind gun ownership, and the practical difficulties that would arise from an attempt to ban guns in the United States.

For someone who gives legal advice on here you've been awfully quiet in exploring the constitutional question of the 2nd Amendment and the legal implications of repealing one of the Bill of Rights, as well as the legal questions that would arise from enforcing such a ban.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1

(personal anecdote alert) Although I've shot guns at times with friends as sport (not at anything living), I've never personally owned a gun. If I was going to live in the US for an extended time however, I would get myself licensed and get one because I think it would be my responsibility to protect myself and my family.

I am a firm believer in the idea that law-abiding Americans should have the right to bear arms. I also know about the argument that an armed population acts as a curb against government tyranny (we may see that coming in the future).

Anyway, gun confiscation in the US would result in Mexico-style crime statistics, so it's a very bad idea and Canadians should mind their own business when it comes to this issue.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
For someone who gives legal advice on here you've been awfully quiet in exploring the constitutional question of the 2nd Amendment and the legal implications of repealing one of the Bill of Rights, as well as the legal questions that would arise from enforcing such ban.


Considering the simple fact that I, for at least 8 months of the year, reside in a country where on May 22 the constitution was repealed at the stroke of a a pen in a bloodless coup at 3am....

No. I don't think there is any need for the exploration of one ancient piece of paper. The US bill of rights is a toothless tiger and the protections it affords were done away with years ago under the Bush administration.

Americans gave up their rights without the need of a coup and got nothing but a police state in return.
Hypocrisy at best is all you get from most Americans.
Indoctrinated rhetoric, however, is more common.
Ignorance is bliss.

.
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
Considering the simple fact that I, for at least 8 months of the year, reside in a country where on May 22 the constitution was repealed at the stroke of a a pen in a bloodless coup at 3am....

No. I don't think there is any need for the exploration of one ancient piece of paper. The US bill of rights is a toothless tiger and the protections it affords were done away with years ago under the Bush administration.

Americans gave up their rights without the need of a coup and got nothing but a police state in return.
Hypocrisy at best is all you get from most Americans.
Indoctrinated rhetoric, however, is more common.
Ignorance is bliss.

.


well said.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:

Considering the simple fact that I, for at least 8 months of the year, reside in a country where on May 22 the constitution was repealed at the stroke of a a pen in a bloodless coup at 3am....

No. I don't think there is any need for the exploration of one ancient piece of paper. The US bill of rights is a toothless tiger and the protections it affords were done away with years ago under the Bush administration.



That's such an overly simplistic and juvenile rendering. Do you actually follow the SCOTUS decisions? Sometimes they come down on the side of the state or conservatives like in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby . Sometimes they come down on the side of the state and liberals like in National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius. Sometimes they come down on the side of individuals in protecting their rights when it comes to searches like in Riley v. California.

Screaming "The Bush administration made the Bill of Rights toothless" sounds like a fun line to throw out, but when you actually look at things, this is not the case. That's not to say there weren't some disturbing actions and troubling incidents, but the core structure of rights and protections that the Bill of Rights provides is there to a fairly strong degree.

The U.S. Constitution is not some "ancient piece of paper", it is the foundation of legal precedent for the United States. Textual Originalists, such as Antonin Scalia (whom many think of as a Bush crony) have used the constitution to argue for defendant rights in cases such as Melendez-Diaz v. Massachusetts (establishing a defendant's right to confront forensic investigators who analyze scientific evidence on the stand) to Kyllo v. United States (in which thermal imaging was ruled to be a search, and thus required a warrant), and Florida v. Jardines (which held that use of police dogs to sniff for drugs on porches constituted a search and required a warrant), to United States v. Jones (which held that attaching a GPS device to a car constitutes a search).

In each of those cases, Scalia, writing for the majority, referred to the textual originalism of the cases involved.

Quote:
and got nothing but a police state in return.


In many ways the police are excessive back home, and there are a lot of incidents and concerns, but there is a difference between an actual police state and a hyperbolic one.

Quote:
Indoctrinated rhetoric, however, is more common.
Ignorance is bliss.


Hyperbolic rhetoric and ignorance in other forms, such as yours, is no counter to those phenomenon.

And we haven't even gotten to the practical enforcement of a gun ban, which much like your "legal" and "democratic" solutions (executive decree?), seem to be in the world of magic wand waving and a lack of unintended consequences.
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