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Malaysian passenger plane shot down in Ukraine near border
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optik404



Joined: 24 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject: Malaysian passenger plane shot down in Ukraine near border Reply with quote

Confirmed that it was shot down by a surface to air missile.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crash-airplane-idUSKBN0FM1TU20140717?utm_source=twitter
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now starts the blame game.
(and the conspiracy theories)
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

catman wrote:
Now starts the blame game.
(and the conspiracy theories)
By "conspiracy theories" do you mean "wild speculation"? It was shot down in a war zone.

Last edited by Sector7G on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russians are saying V.Putin's plane was in the area and was the likely target. A pretty bold claim.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after a quick survey of media:

The American media blames Putin.
The Ukrainian media blames Russian terrorists.
The Russian media blames Ukrainian army.

I read that 70 minors were on the plane.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
So after a quick survey of media:

The American media blames Putin.
The Ukrainian media blames Russian terrorists.
The Russian media blames Ukrainian army.

I read that 70 minors were on the plane.


I think this huge market for instant and constant news and analysis, this need to have talking heads give their take on things before facts are established, makes people stupider and less informed. This was playing on the tv at the place I went for lunch and most of the people were watching it and talking about it, each table around me with their own bs theory about it.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/reasons-why-malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-probably-shot-down-by-a-rebel-missile-and-why-this-mean-the-rebels-have-lost/

Quote:
Of course, it’s still too early to say definitively what happened but this is a personal blog, not a newspaper article or a government report, so I have the space to vent and express what I think rather than what I know. So, here goes.

Although I wish it were otherwise, I feel the overwhelming odds are that MH17 was shot down by a Buk-M1 surface-to-air missile fired by the rebels (but supplied by the Russians):

. . .

3. MH17 was flying too high for the man portable and light vehicle-mounted SAMs the rebels have openly deployed, but recently they admitted–and again these claims seem to have been retracted–to having at least one Buk-M1 SAM system, a tactical battlefield system that has the range to claw a civilian airliner out of the sky, and the warhead to do it with one hit.

4. The Buk is a radar-guided missile, so it could quite possibly have been launched without any eyeballing of the target. Furthermore, while the rebels may have the Buk’s radar targeting system, they lack the extensive radar network and, above all, the skilled sensor operators who might have been able to tell a passenger airliner from a government troop plane.


Another source reports that Moscow has the black box.
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know who to blame:
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35byf1
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maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question I don't see brought up by the media - what was this plane doing flying over the Donbas region?

Do other airlines also allow their planes to fly over that region?

I'm just wondering how common this practice is and if perhaps it was rather unusual for a passanger plane to fly over a war zone (which may indicate a pilot error).
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wanderkind



Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the thread title I thought this referred to the fate of the previous missing Malaysian flight.

Anyway. Just....****ing awful.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
The question I don't see brought up by the media - what was this plane doing flying over the Donbas region?

Do other airlines also allow their planes to fly over that region?

I'm just wondering how common this practice is and if perhaps it was rather unusual for a passanger plane to fly over a war zone (which may indicate a pilot error).


It appears that although there are no-fly zones over Ukraine, the United States gov't had only forbidden passage over Crimea and the surrounding regions. Also, the aircraft was 10,000 meters in altitude. The flight path was certainly unfortunate but perhaps not reckless, especially given rebel statements that they would only target aircraft below 7,000 meters.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This twitter account: https://twitter.com/spainbuca is written by a Spaniard who is an air traffic controller in Kiev. He live-tweeted the event as it was happening. Or so he claims. It's twitter.
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: In my goshiwon cubicle. Seeking moksha.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putin said: Ukrine is ultimately responsible. In political double-speak, it's 'our-mistake-your-fault'. Another words: Russians did it, and rebels are going to get the blame. Laughing

It's not a bad first reponse. George H Bush argued at the UN in similar vein when USS Vincenne shot down an Iranian airliner in the Persian Gulf during the 1980's.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
The question I don't see brought up by the media - what was this plane doing flying over the Donbas region?

Do other airlines also allow their planes to fly over that region?

I'm just wondering how common this practice is and if perhaps it was rather unusual for a passanger plane to fly over a war zone (which may indicate a pilot error).


The plane was forced north due to weather over its normal air corridor. This was completely in line with what they were supposed to do.

It was assumed that the rebels only had MANPADS and thus commercial aircraft were safe as the Ukrainians would have notice of any flights and would have the training and control to handle any air-defense system which may target an aircraft at that altitude.

Possibilities (in no particular order)-
1. Shot down by Ukrainian Air Force fighters.
2. Shot down by Russian Air Force fighters (Highly unlikely, but possible given distance from Russian border, possibly flew into Ukrainian airspace)
3. Shot down by Ukrainian SAM (SA 2/300) or some other system. Would be a major foul up by someone.
4. Shot down by captured Ukrainian SAM (SA 2/300) or some other system.

At the range given its highly improbable that a Russian SAM downed the plane.

I also doubt that the Russians would have given the rebels a Buk/SA 2/300 without giving them a STERN talking to about making sure not to down any civilian airliners.

Who knows though, you can always get a chain of idiocy in situations like this.
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Chaparrastique



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
It was assumed that the rebels only had MANPADS


Do you buy them at the pharmacy?
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