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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| We're not exporting security to China and we don't have the money to lend to them. We have to borrow from them. |
Yes, we are. If you don't know that we are, you are completely unaware as to the true nature of the global security situation. China is utterly incapable of foreign deployments. It is utterly incapable of securing sufficient energy reserves to meet its domestic needs. Guess who is capable of going overseas and securing energy reserves so that they can go to China, and guess who buys the debt of the country that does that? If you don't see the quid pro quo, you are delusional.
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| We have to borrow it. We're not wealthy enough or productive enough to cover our expenses with our revenue from production. |
Yes, that is the nature of the exchange. We export security AND provide government services. Guns and butter. Western Europe and Japan just have the butter. They buy our debt so that we may have both and in return we defend them.
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| They still shoved us halfway down the Korean peninsula. The UN forces got overwhelmed by the sheer amount of Chinese manpower. |
You do realize that quantity does not equate to quality.
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| Nobody elected ISIS. That's not democracy. And the Taliban runs most of Afghanistan. After we throw in the towel, they'll control it all. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. |
I said messy democracy. Very messy. The kind that is going to probably take a 30 Years War to sort out and get to. But you see it starting. The entire Middle Eastern order of 1950-2000 is being overturned.
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| Dick Cheney was evacuated from the White House based on the information regarding Flight 77. He was in his security bunker by the time the plane hit the Pentagon. |
That Bunker was underneath the White House. Next time read official reports, not internet rantings.
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| There was no reason to shoot down multiple planes, as the highjacked flight had been identified. |
What you think as soon as the F-15s took off, they knew instantly where the target was? Amidst a swarm of hundreds of planes along the Eastern Seaboard?
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| Notice this presentation by the US Army War College is titled "Westmoreland: The General Who Lost Vietnam." Notice it says lost and not won. Listen at the 13:50 mark. The guy says the same thing I say. He doesn't talk about trade with China and how Vietnam was a great military victory. |
Even your speaker doesn't call the whole US military incompetent.
And listen to bestselling author Thomas PM Barnett of the Naval War College talk about the global security situation.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?182105-1/pentagons-new-map-powerpoint-presentation
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| The Vietnamese and the Taliban come to mind. They have a strong track record. |
The Vietnamese exerted political and national will. That's not the same as military competence.
The Taliban has a terrible record. They can't even shoot straight.
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/the-weakness-of-taliban-marksmanship/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
AGAIN, YOU ARE CONFUSING POLITICAL AND NATIONAL WILL FOR MILITARY COMPETENCE.
If the Taliban is so great and the US military so bumbling, then where is the Taliban's GITMO, where they are holding all of our captive forces? What bases have they taken over of ours while we held them? Shouldn't it be anabasis out there for the US Army? |
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r2b2ct
Joined: 14 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| http://www.c-span.org/video/?182105-1/pentagons-new-map-powerpoint-presentation |
I love CSPAN. Every time they cut to the audience someone is falling asleep or doing something totally awkward. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Yes, we are. If you don't know that we are, you are completely unaware as to the true nature of the global security situation. China is utterly incapable of foreign deployments. It is utterly incapable of securing sufficient energy reserves to meet its domestic needs. Guess who is capable of going overseas and securing energy reserves so that they can go to China, and guess who buys the debt of the country that does that? If you don't see the quid pro quo, you are delusional. |
If we're paying China $75 million each day in interest on our debt so we can secure China's energy resources for them, we're even more incompetent and beta than I thought. 
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Yes, that is the nature of the exchange. We export security AND provide government services. Guns and butter. Western Europe and Japan just have the butter. They buy our debt so that we may have both and in return we defend them. |
We had plenty of guns and butter back when we were the largest creditor nation in the world. Now, we're the largest debtor nation in the world. But you know the saying: A fool and his money are quickly parted.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| You do realize that quantity does not equate to quality. |
Quantity shoved quality halfway down the Korean peninsula.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I said messy democracy. Very messy. The kind that is going to probably take a 30 Years War to sort out and get to. But you see it starting. The entire Middle Eastern order of 1950-2000 is being overturned. |
The Taliban will be in power in Afghanistan after we leave just like they were before we showed up. In Iraq, Iran has more power and influence than we do. It's not working out the way we expected. If we wanted a puppet democratic leader in Iraq with various militant groups romping around, taking over cities, we could've pulled out in 2006 or earlier and had that. I'm sure we didn't want ISIS to steal the $429 million the USA provided the central bank in Mosul. ISIS also took over various types of military vehicles the USA sent over there, including Blackhawk helicopters. That wasn't supposed to happen!
| Steelrails wrote: |
| That Bunker was underneath the White House. Next time read official reports, not internet rantings. |
Cheney, a geriatric with heart problems, still moved faster than our USAF pilots and their mach 2 jets. Those pilots used the same strategy as the Marines who stood around guarding the barracks in Beirut with unloaded rifles, looking stupid, while one enemy soldier drove a truck right by them and jeered at them, before killing hundreds of their comrades, and sending the US military out of Lebanon with its tail between its legs.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| What you think as soon as the F-15s took off, they knew instantly where the target was? Amidst a swarm of hundreds of planes along the Eastern Seaboard? |
The Eastern Seaboard was irrelevant. The plane, along with its extremely high speed and its path, was identified. But again, we have the same military that guards its barracks in a war zone with unloaded rifles. It's unreasonable to think we can stop a plane when we can't even stop a truck.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Even your speaker doesn't call the whole US military incompetent. |
He did say the US military lost the Vietnam War due to its miscalculations. That's a polite way of saying they were incompetent.
Which part? That's a three hour video.
| Steelrails wrote: |
The Vietnamese exerted political and national will. That's not the same as military competence.
The Taliban has a terrible record. They can't even shoot straight.
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/the-weakness-of-taliban-marksmanship/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
If the Taliban is so great and the US military so bumbling, then where is the Taliban's GITMO, where they are holding all of our captive forces? What bases have they taken over of ours while we held them? Shouldn't it be anabasis out there for the US Army? |
The Vietnamese military outlasted a lot of invaders over the past 80 years:
Imperial Japan. France. The combined forces of the USA, South Korea, Thailand, the Philippines, Australia, and New Zealand. China.
Even if Vietnam veterans at the VFWs throughout America were to all throw parties celebrating the amount of Chinese goods in Wal*Mart, our trade deficit, and the $75 million we pay China in interest each day, it wouldn't matter. We still lost the war. And I really don't think our Vietnam veterans are as happy about our trade with China as you think they are.
The Taliban doesn't have to capture our forces in order to win. They don't have to take over our bases. All they have to do is keep going until we throw in the towel, just like the Soviets did when they tried to win a war against some of the same guys who are now commanding the Taliban forces. The fact that our military is going to lose the war to guys who "can't even shoot straight" speaks volumes.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| AGAIN, YOU ARE CONFUSING POLITICAL AND NATIONAL WILL FOR MILITARY COMPETENCE. |
Again, you're trying to make excuses for our failures and trying to polish turds like our national debt. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:34 am Post subject: |
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EZE, if the Taliban is such a crack military force and the US so incompetent, then how come no other military goes to them for training, and pretty much every military outside of Russia, China (who still participates in RIMPAC), and the Axis of Evil trains with the US? Why does mighty Vietnam seek to train with the US and purchase US equipment?
Shouldn't the Iranian Air Force by taking off to challenge the incompetent US Air Force and blowing them out of the sky?
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| Cheney, a geriatric with heart problems, still moved faster than our USAF pilots and their mach 2 jets. |
Cheney moved faster than Mach 2?
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| Those pilots used the same strategy as the Marines who stood around guarding the barracks in Beirut with unloaded rifles, looking stupid, while one enemy soldier drove a truck right by them and jeered at them, before killing hundreds of their comrades, and sending the US military out of Lebanon with its tail between its legs. |
You do realize that the US didn't have aircraft on constant Combat Air Patrol looking for hijacked civilian airliners 24-7, right? You do realize aircraft are expensive to operate and require regular maintenance, right? You do realize that the logistical requirements to do such a thing is ridiculous, right? You do realize that you can't have the perfect defense, right?
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| The plane, along with its extremely high speed and its path, was identified. |
The only one that was identified, possibly, was United 93. The others were not due to the sheer volume of air traffic and their transponders being off.
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| He did say the US military lost the Vietnam War due to its miscalculations. That's a polite way of saying they were incompetent. |
No, its not. Don't put words in his mouth. Saying that there were strategic miscalculations does not mean that the US Military in its entirety is incompetent.
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EZE, just because a military loses a battle or suffers a defeat does not mean its entire military is incompetent henceforth and forever more. Military scientists don't ignore lessons from things like Jackson's Valley Campaign, German small-unit tactics in WWI, or Von Seeckt's reformation of the German Army in the interwar period simply because they ended up on the losing side. They don't declare them as incompetent.
That's like saying that because Gary Kasparov lost a match to a player with an ELO rating 300 points below his and made a big blunder, that he is then an incompetent chess player.
Lastly, do you honestly believe what you are writing, you are you just saying it for the sake of saying something? If you were the commander of another military or a military officer, say with your life on the line, would you really dismiss the entire US military as incompetent? Seriously, your arguments are like those of Anti-Vaxers or Climate Change Deniers. No rational or scientific basis, just a bunch of hype and hyperbole. |
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