Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Two American tourists detained in North Korea
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The internet atheists are more obnoxious than Evangelical Christians.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Two American tourists detained in North Korea Reply with quote

[quote="Julius"]Its already been done, the lessons of history are very clear. Atheistic policies produce terrible, oppressive societies that kill millions of innocent people.[quote]

Please tell me you're flogging that old nonsense that Adolf Hitler and the Nazi leadership were atheists. That couldn't be further from the truth. Give me one quote of Hitler's, or evidence of a single conversation, where Hitler claims or implies he was an atheist. He was deeply religious, but in a very unconventional way. And deeply superstitious. Himmler was obsessed with the occult, and Hess was deeply into astrology. These people were not atheists. Thewy may not have been conventional Christians. But what is a "conventional" Christian anyway? A Roman Catholic? Mennonnite? Presbyterian? There has never been a "Christianity". There have been "Christianities". Plural. The Nazis had what they called "Positive Christianity", as legitimate as any other. And as for Himmler's "atheism" I give you this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h826L6qh_Ac

Nazis were NOT atheists.

For fukks sake, the SS on their belts had the inscription "Gott mit us." (God with us.) And they got their hatrd of the Jews from St. Paul and the Gospel of John. The holocaust has Christianity written all over it.

The Nazis were hardly atheists, but of course lying for the kingdom of god has a long and noble history, doesn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Two American tourists detained in North Korea Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
The holocaust has Christianity written all over it.


What? Christianity means so much to so many different people. There's nothing remotely Christ-like about the Holocaust. There's much about the Holocaust that derives from Catholic authoritarianism and the Crusader zealot ethos.

That said, the Nazis don't have much to do with Atheism, either. I believe Hitler himself was in love with paganism, and in particular, the Norse pantheon and legends. I'm not about to begin to hate Norse mythology for this, though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Two American tourists detained in North Korea Reply with quote

Julius wrote:
So you don't believe in personal freedom? freedom of religion? You're on the side of the opressors?


Yep that is exactly what I said.

Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Two American tourists detained in North Korea Reply with quote

Julius wrote:
Numerous nations have tried to snuff out Christianity over millenia. Its hardly a novel concept. In recent times the USSR spent nearly a century attempting to liquidate christianity, killing many millions of christians in pursuit of the same ideology you now hear western atheists (such as are on daveseslcafe) have.



False. Most atheists are not communists.


Quote:
Militant atheism, according to Harold J. Berman, a Harvard specialist in Soviet law, was the state credo of the Soviet Union. The militant state atheism of the Bolshevik Revolution owed its origins to the Marxist-Leninist dictum that religion was the opium of the masses. As such, the goal of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was the liquidation of religion and the means to achieve this goal included the destruction of churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, religious monuments, as well the mass deportation of believers to Siberian forced labor camps, which is commonly referred to as the Gulag. Many of these houses of worship were converted into bath houses, granaries, and museums of atheism, the latter of which were constructed in order to proselytize the masses into accepting atheism. In addition, atheistic and antireligious carnivals were frequently held in order to promote the mockery of the religious and the beliefs that they held sacred.

Under the Soviet doctrine of separation of Church and state, detailed in the Constitution of the Soviet Union, churches in the Soviet Union were forbidden to give to the poor or carry on educational activities. They could not publish literature, since all publishing was done by state agencies. Churches were forbidden to hold any special meetings for children, youth or women, or any general meetings for religious study or recreation, or to open libraries or keep any books other than those necessary for the performance of worship services. Furthermore, under militant atheist policies, Church property was expropriated. Moreover, not only was religion banned from the school and university system, but pupils were to be indoctrinated with atheism and antireligious teachings. For example, schoolchildren were asked to convert family members to atheism and memorize antireligious rhymes, songs, and catechisms, while university students who declined to propagate atheism lost their scholarships and were expelled from universities. In addition, scientific theories, such as the Big Bang, which implied a creator God, were suppressed in favor of theories which were thought to support atheistic materialism.


the same process is underway in the west.


Please provide evidence of Christians being oppressed in the west.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While our friend Julius is busy trying to find evidence of Hitler's "atheism" I present you with the following. Quite the unorthodox atheist, I must say:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/23/list-of-hitler-quotes-he-was-q/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of this talk about whether atheists or religious people killed the most people and caused the most devastation completely misunderstands the issue. It's fanaticism, not religion or lack of it, that matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Two American tourists detained in North Korea Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
The holocaust has Christianity written all over it.


Oh shut up. Go back to reddit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll help out a bit.

The National Socialists saw Christianity, and especially Protestantism as a weak religion of forgiveness, apology and and love. In Hitler's Table Talk it is made clear that once Judaic influence was removed from Germany they'd next target the Masons (also Judaic) and then the church (first Prot, then Catholic).

http://www.newyorker.com/news/george-packer/islamized-germans
Quote:
Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking: ‘You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?’


Hitler was from a Catholic background. He appreciated the Tradition of the Latin Mass, but he would have agreed with Evola that under Byzantium the Church was more Roman than Catholic, and as time passed it was becoming more Christ-like and less Roman-like, which was a catastrophe for European man.

Germany was at that time still strongly religious, though becoming less so, and the NSDAP had to use Christian imagery and rhetoric to win over the non-Berlin dwelling masses. They couldn't just come out and say "we're taking you back to Rome" as the people wouldn't have accepted it.


I wish Christianity to be true if only that internet atheists might rot in hell.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
All of this talk about whether atheists or religious people killed the most people and caused the most devastation completely misunderstands the issue. It's fanaticism, not religion or lack of it, that matters.


Of course, but good luck getting those fanatics to agree or understand you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Leon wrote:
All of this talk about whether atheists or religious people killed the most people and caused the most devastation completely misunderstands the issue. It's fanaticism, not religion or lack of it, that matters.


Of course, but good luck getting those fanatics to agree or understand you.


Fanatics believe everyone else is a fanatics, so if you disagree with them, you must believe the opposite of what they believe, and believe it strongly, and probably are a dangerous idiot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
I wish Christianity to be true if only that internet atheists might rot in hell.


And there we have it. Christians could never have been behind the Holocaust (and it's dreadful, if temporary, torments), because Christians are taught to be loving and compassionate....But we'd sure love to see internet atheists endure a (eternal, never-ending) holocaust in Hell while, with St. Thomas Aquinas, we look down approvingly on their eternal anguish and think "Our God is awesome. Look at those fools scream and writhe and beg for mercy. Not gonna happen muthafukkas. Enjoy eternity!"

It's obviously not a very long way from that sort of evil attitude toward the suffering of "the other" to the gas chambers of Auschwitz.

Titus, you need psychological help. Atheists wish you no harm. Why would you wish to inflict eternal torment on people who wish you no harm, but merely disagree (however forcefully) with your understanding of reality. What about Christianity being the religion of love and compassion? Or is that a load of bullshit too?

Oh, one more thing. Darwin never said a word about the Jews, nor advocated any oppressive measures against them whatsoever. The Catholic Church did, often forcing Jews to wear the yellow star and be confined to ghettos. The Church's nemesis, Martin Luther also advocated draconian measures against the Jews. In his "On the Jews and their Lies" he advocated strong measures against Germany's Jewish community. And guess what? Each and every one of the measures advocated by Luther were implemented by the Nazis between 1933 and 1935.

There is a clear line between the Gospel of John ("His blood be on all their hands"), St. Paul (the "synagogue of Satan"), The Catholic Church (Jews "the enemy of God"), Luther's ugly writings (linked below), and the Nuremberg Laws. And from the Nuremburg Laws we go straight to the extermination camps.

But nah, let's blame Darwin. A person who never expressed an anti-Jewish sentiment in his life. Confused

Here we go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ You're a secular Protestant, what with all the crying about love and feelings. It is weak. I am without religion. You do not believe in Darwinism.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, one more thing. Darwin never said a word about the Jews, nor advocated any oppressive measures against them whatsoever. The Catholic Church did, often forcing Jews to wear the yellow star and be confined to ghettos. The Church's nemesis, Martin Luther also advocated draconian measures against the Jews. In his "On the Jews and their Lies" he advocated strong measures against Germany's Jewish community. And guess what? Each and every one of the measures advocated by Luther were implemented by the Nazis between 1933 and 1935.


Luther detested Jews. He thought they were greedy, dishonest, degenerate and basically the collective incarnation of Satan. Voltaire thought even worse of them. There was an enormous expansion of the Jewish population in central and eastern Europe and everybody was on each others nerves. This has nothing to do with Christians, who worship a Jew, just as muslims don't hate Jews b/c of text but Judaic behavior. See the slaughter in Gaza last week for context. It is not fair to take a trend (in this case hostility to a minority group) that exists in multiple environments and then place blame for the hostility on one of many participants.

Anyhow, this long, long series of posts about Dawkins and the New Atheists is excellent: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-dawkins-got-pwned-part-1.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Quote:
Oh, one more thing. Darwin never said a word about the Jews, nor advocated any oppressive measures against them whatsoever. The Catholic Church did, often forcing Jews to wear the yellow star and be confined to ghettos. The Church's nemesis, Martin Luther also advocated draconian measures against the Jews. In his "On the Jews and their Lies" he advocated strong measures against Germany's Jewish community. And guess what? Each and every one of the measures advocated by Luther were implemented by the Nazis between 1933 and 1935.


Luther detested Jews. He thought they were greedy, dishonest, degenerate and basically the collective incarnation of Satan. Voltaire thought even worse of them. There was an enormous expansion of the Jewish population in central and eastern Europe and everybody was on each others nerves. This has nothing to do with Christians, who worship a Jew, just as muslims don't hate Jews b/c of text but Judaic behavior. See the slaughter in Gaza last week for context. It is not fair to take a trend (in this case hostility to a minority group) that exists in multiple environments and then place blame for the hostility on one of many participants.

Anyhow, this long, long series of posts about Dawkins and the New Atheists is excellent: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-dawkins-got-pwned-part-1.html


Not only are you a very unpleasant person, who hopes atheists "rot in hell", but you are a vile anti-semite. What exactly is "Judaic behavior"? Does Jerry Seinfeld partake of this phenomenon? Did Eistein, Spinoza and Freud? Did Marx? Woody Allen? Leonard Cohen? My English teacher in high school? Bill Maher? Jon Stewart? Barbara Streisand? My roomate in college? Jason Alexander? Mel Brookes? Al Jolsen? Bette Midler? My mate down at the pub?

What exactly is the offensive "Judaic behavior" exhibited by these people?

Anti-semitism has nothing to do with supposed "Judaic behavior", and everything to do with Christian and Muslim texts. Both books are filled with hatred against Judaism and Jews. I've already given a few quotes from the Christian bible. Now let's allow the Koran, and its believers, to speak for themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu6Ond1ESq8

Anti-semitism is a disease emerging from a toxic mix of racism and (most importantly) religious tracts and beliefs that tell people to hate the Jews because God hates the Jews. This is not just the Feurher telling people to hate Jews. This is GOD telling them to hate and persecute Jews.

Yet you would have us believe these "texts" have had no impact on the emergence of anti-semitism in the Christian and Muslim worlds. It's all about "Judaic behavior."

How is it then that, outside of the Christian and Islamic world, anti-semitism is virtually unknown? Where are your Hindu anti-semites? Your Buddhist anti-semites? Your Jainist anti-semites? They don't exist. But how can that be, given that anti-semitism is the product of worldwide "Judaic behaviour." Do Jews in Tibet just behave better? Or is it that these people aren't anti-semetic because they don't follow a competing version of the Abrahamic faith? Their holy books don't condemn them as "Christ murderers", "pigs and apes", and "the synagogue of Satan".

The Christian and Muslim scriptures do. And that's where we must look for the roots of anti-semitism.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International