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We tortured some folks

 
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: We tortured some folks Reply with quote

https://soundcloud.com/lelink/we-tortured-some-folks

We could look backwards
We could game the blame
We could point fingers
We could wallow in shame
We could punish the guilty for each little flaw
As we're supposed to do under international law
We could say we're sorry, which we never do
Because we're exceptional, so are you
So let's leave it as this, let's leave it unseen
Let's look at the future, and wipe the slate clean
You don't wanna pursue this, neither do I
It would be like busting me now because I used to get high

So let's pretend we don't hear
The screams and the croaks
And just tell our grandkids
We tortured some folks
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stilicho25



Joined: 05 Apr 2010

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont like the song, but I agree with the sentiment.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was an incredibly disrespectful line by BHO.

Every time he says the word 'folks' I move further to the right.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
That was an incredibly disrespectful line by BHO.

Every time he says the word 'folks' I move further to the right.


Obama's an authoritarian centrist, so one could end up moving left as well. Or most appropriately, more libertarian (i.e. the axis in opposition to authoritarianism).
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:


Obama's an authoritarian centrist, so one could end up moving left as well.


Indeed. Hillary is more of the same too. 2016 is going to be depressing. I honestly would be tempted to vote for Rand Paul if he were to win the GOP nomination (ha, like that's going to happen). No way a left-wing version of Paul would win...
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Titus wrote:
That was an incredibly disrespectful line by BHO.

Every time he says the word 'folks' I move further to the right.


Obama's an authoritarian centrist, so one could end up moving left as well. Or most appropriately, more libertarian (i.e. the axis in opposition to authoritarianism).


Why on earth would a white person move left? Or libertarian (ie move economy to China and move Mexico here)? They're pro-regime ideologies. False opposition. Whatever you want to call it.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
That was an incredibly disrespectful line by BHO.

Every time he says the word 'folks' I move further to the right.


Would people further right be less likely to torture people, or just less likely to sound really awkward when they admit it?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Titus wrote:
That was an incredibly disrespectful line by BHO.

Every time he says the word 'folks' I move further to the right.


Obama's an authoritarian centrist, so one could end up moving left as well. Or most appropriately, more libertarian (i.e. the axis in opposition to authoritarianism).


Why on earth would a white person move left? Or libertarian (ie move economy to China and move Mexico here)? They're pro-regime ideologies. False opposition. Whatever you want to call it.


I'm pretty sure you didn't understand what I meant by libertarian. Its on a different axis entirely from Left/Right: http://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart.php?showform

Anyway, right-wing is just being a Republican, by your logic, since Republicans are right-wing. You are very very very very wrong that Left is a pro-regime ideology in America. In fact, it is the most oppositional position to the oligarchy, since right-wing ideologies do not oppose oligarchies per se, but only oligarchies of a certain kind (i.e. one that tolerates a black Democrat as its figurehead).
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have forgotten more of that libertarian stuff than you have learned. I read every single libertarian book, article, essay etc that I could get my hands on for several years. Then I put them all in the garbage. I learned more from Ezra Pound, Thomas Edison, and C. H. Douglas than from a hundred books by these autistic libertarians.

Quote:
Anyway, right-wing is just being a Republican, by your logic, since Republicans are right-wing.


By what logic? No. The Republican Party, meaning the people who fund it, is not right wing.

Quote:
You are very very very very wrong that Left is a pro-regime ideology in America.


No, I’m not. First, the Old Left has completely collapsed. What is now left is Trotskyist Internationalism. Please provide some examples. The American regime, the ruling class, is leftist. They’re slowly whittling away at the nation, though the state.

Quote:
In fact, it is the most oppositional position to the oligarchy, since right-wing ideologies do not oppose oligarchies per se, but only oligarchies of a certain kind (i.e. one that tolerates a black Democrat as its figurehead).


You’re applying autistic “free market” horseshit here. Markets tend towards consolidation. Period. All the libertarian bullshit about free markets and competition blah blah blah is complete nonsense. Economies are always planned and economic activity is always consolidated in a few entities/individuals. Economic planning can be done by bankers (usury) through the deliberate allocation of capital, as it is in our system, or they’re planned by a different group. The problem is not that oligopolies exist but that our oligopolies serve mammon.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
I have forgotten more of that libertarian stuff than you have learned.


No doubt you have, because when I use the term libertarian, I'm talking about something both much broader and also something less specific. I don't mean Right-Libertarian, which is what libertarian means in modern common parlance. I mean simply by the term: in opposition to authoritarianism.

Its easier to compare the libertarianism I mean to its opposite. For example, the Nazi regime was pure authoritarianism. It stood for the term National Socialist German Worker's Party, and amalgamated both Leftist (Socialist Worker's) and Rightist (National German) themes. The Nazis didn't care about such distinctions, and while they started out anti-capitalist and anti-big business, it very quickly pivoted to anti-Semitism and expansionist imperialism as a sign of its pragmatism and ultimate ambivalence to the Left-Right spectrum. Ultimately, by calling Obama an authoritarian, I am positioning him on the same side as the Nazi party, although obviously his authoritarianism is not as extreme and he arrives at his present level of authoritarianism as a way to win power (just as the Nazis gradually went to the right-wing to gain power). His economic policy is staunchly in the Blue Dog, Reaganite tradition, in which he refuses to truly question powerful market participants because of his faith in market forces. Nonetheless, he is also ambivalent towards right-wing populism, and although incompetent in high financial matters, he might yet sympathize with the working poor and advocate for increased minimum wage increases (although do not give him so much credit for that, it benefits his core constituency).

So by libertarian I mean someone like Edward Snowden, a person who would take risks to reveal hidden corruption and undermine existing power structures, but who might incidentally have Left-wing or Right-wing sympathies; Glenn Greenwald is another example of this, as he rages against the machine, but he is as likely to attack Boston Mayor Menino for his encroachment on free speech as he is Obama or Bush for their imperialist militarism. I am not talking about the libertarians everyone else means, but I have not found a more suitable antonym for authoritarian than the term libertarian.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ a civil libertarian. That's what you're getting at.
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