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New U.S Domestic Terrorist Attack Motivated by Racial Hate
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stilicho25



Joined: 05 Apr 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hundreds of thousands of white southerners were drafted to defend their state. As long as it is a memorial for them, I don't see a problem.

Rteacher, the symbols that you use are from a religion that to this day enforces a caste system that disenfranchises huge numbers of its adherents. It is a real shame to see it displayed here. It is a representation of racism and classicism. Do you see how that works?
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Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stilicho25 wrote:
Rteacher, the symbols that you use are from a religion that to this day enforces a caste system that disenfranchises huge numbers of its adherents. It is a real shame to see it displayed here. It is a representation of racism and classicism. Do you see how that works?


Ahh, but he's a Hare Krishna, not a Hindu.

You know, the religion behind the kidnapping and abuse of hundreds of kids back in the 70s and 80s, not the religion behind the caste system. Confused
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stilicho25



Joined: 05 Apr 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops, good catch.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The confederate flag is a deflection to a large extent. I absolutely guarantee you getting rid of it will not help a thing and if anything makes things worse. I'm NOT saying don't get rid of it but in doing so its a symbolic bandaid that does absolutely nothing in addressing the elephant in the room and that is 'America avoids a real talk about racism because it will not like what that truth is.
Removing the flag, although the right thing to do, will make the outright supremacists feel more besieged and under attack. So, in removing it, be ready for the consequences.

The FBI knows all these folks. The greatest domestic threat has always been these hate groups. The FBI has most infiltrated. They knew the KKK and white nationalists were applying to be cops from over a decade ago. How do they know? These are secret organizations? They have been infiltrated or have paid informants to varying degrees since the Presidents of the civil rights era demanded Hoover to stop the Klan from bombing in the deep south.

They are the only American groups the most likely to commit domestic terrorist acts (Oklahoma). On the other side of the coin, the Nation of Islam, Farrakhan and the like groups know doing any such acts would be dealt with the groups destruction. Plus they are fully infiltrated as well, moreso than the white nationalist groups.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underwaterbob wrote:
stilicho25 wrote:
Rteacher, the symbols that you use are from a religion that to this day enforces a caste system that disenfranchises huge numbers of its adherents. It is a real shame to see it displayed here. It is a representation of racism and classicism. Do you see how that works?


Ahh, but he's a Hare Krishna, not a Hindu.

You know, the religion behind the kidnapping and abuse of hundreds of kids back in the 70s and 80s, not the religion behind the caste system. Confused


The current Wikipedia article factually summarizes controversies, including various categories of litigation, along with the core beliefs and principles of the International Society of Krishna Consciousness. Aside from a few pedophiles who infiltrated some schools, the most serious problems were caused by a couple renegades who did not follow the standard principles after usurping power...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's not going to be any race war in America or any serious campaign. Too many people clubbing, shopping, eating, and being entertained for such a thing to ever be more than a fringe movement one way or the other.

The worst it could get is a few days or weeks of strikes and then everything going back to normal.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that there will probably not be a full fledged race war BUT there has not been any real violent response...yet.

We gloss over the effect of repeated or what blacks may deem as repeated physical threats (cop killings ) but systemic issues. I can easily see a growing militancy.

Its happened before. The peaceful resistance message in the MLK era didn't resonate with young blacks because they didn't see that it worked and hence you have the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers.

Now in the days of electronic media its much, much easier to mobilize and speak nationally with like minded people in different areas of the country.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Governor of South Carolina and both of its Senators - all Republicans - have dramatically reversed their stance and called for removal of the Confederate flag from the State Capitol grounds to a museum ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/06/22/south-carolina-officials-and-activists-call-for-removal-of-confederate-flag-near-the-state-capitol
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geldedgoat wrote:

This is a nonsense statement. He aligned his beliefs with the flag, but a great many more display the same flag in an entirely benign manner (benign, at least, with respect to race relations). Whether or not the Stars and Bars was flying over the capitol or had even been roundly denounced would have swayed him not in the slightest, much like how the popular sentiments towards his actual transgressions of morality held no influence. More directly, his stated complaint was that blacks were taking over the country; how do think removing the flag to avoid offending white progressives and blacks would have made him feel?


I said it symbolized his motivation, as you yourself acknowledge ("he aligned his beliefs with the flag"). I didn't say it was responsible for his actions or caused the events to occur.

In any event, others such as Plain Meaning, Fox, and Ta-Nehisi Coates have elaborated and more eloquently expressed what I meant, so I'll just leave it at that.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
'America avoids a real talk about racism because it will not like what that truth is.


Which is what?
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
'America avoids a real talk about racism because it will not like what that truth is.


Which is what?


What I might consider a "real talk" and you or blacks, may be different things but the so call "conversation" is avoided by all costs by society in general and always limited to some CNN or Fox town hall type meeting where they have an hour of hand picked people on both sides of the issue that ends up with a lot of deflection and defensive rhetoric. This only happens when some thing happens to blacks and we think we better say or act like we are doing something.

A start? A follow up to the Moynihan report or Kerner Commission. Those were intensive, objective research and they reported back things that either we didn't know or avoided wanting to know.

What happens if we don't? The possibility that at some point as I said becomes a tipping point. That point happened in 1967 and 1968 when over 100 cities had riots and mayhem in the summer.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A follow up to the Moynihan report


Clearly the collapse of the nuclear family and the proliferation of single mothers in the black community is the key problem and probably the most difficult to address.
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jazzmaster



Joined: 30 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Clearly the collapse of the nuclear family and the proliferation of single mothers in the black community is the key problem and probably the most difficult to address.


That's pretty interesting as I've seen a couple of posts on facebook recently claiming that single mothers in Korea are treated terribly. Perhaps remaining critical of single mothers is an important way for Korea to avoid the mistakes made in many countries in the west.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
A follow up to the Moynihan report


Clearly the collapse of the nuclear family and the proliferation of single mothers in the black community is the key problem and probably the most difficult to address.


I think that basically reforming the criminal justice and welfare systems in ways that would productively engage everyone, according to their ability, on work projects aimed at improving infrastructure, environment and other socially beneficial stuff would enable more poor people in general and blacks in particular to maintain good families.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
bigverne wrote:
Quote:
A follow up to the Moynihan report


Clearly the collapse of the nuclear family and the proliferation of single mothers in the black community is the key problem and probably the most difficult to address.


I think that basically reforming the criminal justice and welfare systems in ways that would productively engage everyone, according to their ability, on work projects aimed at improving infrastructure, environment and other socially beneficial stuff would enable more poor people in general and blacks in particular to maintain good families.


That coupled with restricting immigration of low-skilled immigration so blacks don't have to compete with foreigners for such jobs would be a good idea. But what you are also dealing with is fifty years of social decline, which is much harder to reverse.
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