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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| meangradin wrote: |
| pmwhittier wrote: |
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| I had a recruiter tell me the other day that the "Academy Union" had decided not to provide airfare to Korea anymore. |
Ha ha. That's funny. Recruiters really will say anything to make a sale. I feel sorry for the new applicants that don't know that things like an "Academy Union" are completely made up delusions of an idiot recruiter trying to dupe some poor schmuck.
In related news, I heard that the super boss of the Hagwon Super Friends club decided that all new employees must pay for their own apartments. Sucks, but it is what it is, ya know? |
As a hagwon owner, I can tell you that there is an academy owners organization, but I couldn't tell you how much power they wield. I can say that we meet a few times a year and discuss industry standards. the one way plane ticket is/will be the industry standard. |
People think that if they whinge and fight back enough that it'll make a difference, some people have a extremely far fetched sense of self importance here. The truth is that English teachers not only in Korea but I can personally vouch for Japan and China are no longer in shortage. They just aren't hard to source anymore.
Schools can be picky about who they choose and can make harder bargains these days because there is always someone who will take up the offer that someone else won't. You and me both know it won't end at one way tickets soon it'll be only a available to those already in country. Then no free accommodation, then God knows what. There are already tons of positions without flights in China.
Schools and recruiters have every right to be this tough, it's a free market. If people don't like it they can find places were English teaching is still in demand and/or get qualified in a skilled trade that has a shortage of quality candidates.
If people want to continue to hedge their bets in teaching ESL long term then they should at least understand the likely future implications. There doesn't seem to be a lot of useful non biased info on this out there though as it tends to be full of recruiters trying to sell jobs at their cheapest offers and current foreign teachers under payroll trying to convince themselves that the future is rosey. |
I have a hard time seeing no free accommodation ever really working in Korea. The key money burden is simply too high for the kind of individuals who are willing to go and teach in Korea. How many recent graduates have $10,000 sitting around? Those that do generally are going to use that money to get started in a city in their home country, not give it to some shady Korean landlord. |
Upfront accommodation for first x months, payment deducted from monthly salary earnings until graduate is in neutral territory (will be less than the contract period), after which he pays rent himself. Upfront salary if necessary for expenses and clauses for deductions on security deposit in contract. Places already do similar things.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
This may be true for Korea and Japan but not so much for China. |
Point taken also to further your argument China actually did just increase the requirements to a notarized degree but I haven't seen salaries rise over the years (10-15k rmb private/public schools) and I've seen privates go from 300 rmb/hour to 100 rmb/hour. It's still better than Korea for now no doubt but I can't see it going down any other path than the one Korea has found itself trailing. |
Salaries in China 10 or 15 years ago were 4000 to 6000 rmb a month instead of the 10 to 15 k rmb a month they are today. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/49lwqt/whats_up_with_schools_only_offering_one_way_plane/ |
I think people have realized and accepted it now, most jobs advertise don't advertise return tickets now. I wonder what will be next on the list of benefits to kick the bucket, probably full subsidized housing. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| If people want to continue to hedge their bets in teaching ESL long term then they should at least understand the likely future implications. There doesn't seem to be a lot of useful non biased info on this out there though as it tends to be full of recruiters trying to sell jobs at their cheapest offers and current foreign teachers under payroll trying to convince themselves that the future is rosey. |
Agreed.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Only if you really REALLY enjoy this, should you do this long term. |
This is good advice. Salaries for teaching English abroad are low and going down. To give some perspective, median income for workers in America whose highest level of education is a bachelors degree is $5,000 (5.8 million won) a month. We make less than half of that. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/49lwqt/whats_up_with_schools_only_offering_one_way_plane/ |
I think people have realized and accepted it now, most jobs advertise don't advertise return tickets now. I wonder what will be next on the list of benefits to kick the bucket, probably full subsidized housing. |
That has been in the works. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/49lwqt/whats_up_with_schools_only_offering_one_way_plane/ |
I think people have realized and accepted it now, most jobs advertise don't advertise return tickets now. I wonder what will be next on the list of benefits to kick the bucket, probably full subsidized housing. |
In response to this comment on reddit:
"""I was in the public school system for a while in Korea and I felt like the budget cuts were affecting things each year. We started losing flight reimbursements, then re-signing bonuses, etc. I think it's a symptom of the market slowing down."""
I still get renewal allowance or flight allowance each eyar. It's still 2 million won. But now I get 1.3 million upfront and have to wait several months to get the remainder. Also, I use to get 2 weeks extra vacation for renewal and now get one. But everything else is still included and level 1+ still pay 2.7 million won. Not to say these things couldn't change in the future. If your school offers one way flight, ask for an extra 100,000 won a month to compensate. There are still as of April 2016 schools offering one way flight or a higher salary 2.4 to 2.5 at least. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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I just noticed this reddit has no date on it. Maybe it's a year or two old?
Either way, there are a lot less E2 teachers here now. (Gusts of popular feeling blog.) There are still hakwon jobs hiring in 2016. So, the market may get better over the next year or so. I think it's easier to get one of these jobs now compared to 3 or 4 years ago where it was much more hyper competitive. But wages are still mediocre to only slightly higher. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I just noticed this reddit has no date on it. Maybe it's a year or two old? |
No. One month. Look at the faint gray letters.
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I think it's easier to get one of these jobs now compared to 3 or 4 years ago where it was much more hyper competitive. |
You keep saying that, but it's not true. Just like you kept saying the U.S. government was printing money until it was worthless. The reality is, the opposite is true. Inflation is 1% a year, and the U.S. dollar is very, very strong (unlike the suck @$$ Canadian dollar).
Let's look at some facts. The number of English language hagwons has been declining every year. Why are so many going out of business? One factor is less and less kids every year. (The Korean youth population peaked in 1978, and has been slowly declining ever since.) I know one hagwon (Avalon) which had nine native speakers on staff in 2010, but now only one. So many (maybe most?) English hagwons have all Korean English teachers- no natives. Maybe there has been a shift in thinking among Korean parents.
Yes, there are jobs- though less than before- but generally speaking, females are preferred. The number of male E-2s has dropped to 2005 levels. (Employers are becoming increasingly picky compared to before.)
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2016/03/when-it-comes-to-e-2-visa-holders-women.html
One more thing to note is right now is the best time of the year to be a job seeker. Why? A new set of four year college students will graduate the first week of May. Right before that is a bit harder to source native speakers. (Most Westerners who teach English in South Korea do so right out of college, and most stay for one year only.) |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Many hogwans are now trying to the do the one way, flight reimbursement upon the first or second payday.
There are no shortage of jobs...it is just hey are all low ball jobs, with decreasing benefits, increasing hours and classes.
China, Vietnam, Thailand (being there is the benefit, and working multiple gigs without the swat team ready to deport you)...all looking good, with Korea in the rear view mirror, still blaming foreign teachers for its own mentally handicapped issues |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I just noticed this reddit has no date on it. Maybe it's a year or two old? |
No. One month. Look at the faint gray letters.
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I think it's easier to get one of these jobs now compared to 3 or 4 years ago where it was much more hyper competitive. |
You keep saying that, but it's not true. Just like you kept saying the U.S. government was printing money until it was worthless. The reality is, the opposite is true. Inflation is 1% a year, and the U.S. dollar is very, very strong (unlike the suck @$$ Canadian dollar).
Let's look at some facts. The number of English language hagwons has been declining every year. Why are so many going out of business? One factor is less and less kids every year. (The Korean youth population peaked in 1978, and has been slowly declining ever since.) I know one hagwon (Avalon) which had nine native speakers on staff in 2010, but now only one. So many (maybe most?) English hagwons have all Korean English teachers- no natives. Maybe there has been a shift in thinking among Korean parents.
Yes, there are jobs- though less than before- but generally speaking, females are preferred. The number of male E-2s has dropped to 2005 levels. (Employers are becoming increasingly picky compared to before.)
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2016/03/when-it-comes-to-e-2-visa-holders-women.html
One more thing to note is right now is the best time of the year to be a job seeker. Why? A new set of four year college students will graduate the first week of May. Right before that is a bit harder to source native speakers. (Most Westerners who teach English in South Korea do so right out of college, and most stay for one year only.) |
Agree to all of this post, although I've only seen personal proof of Hagwons going from NET teachers to natives, I believe this is what is happening. The statistics will come out at some point.
| trueblue wrote: |
Many hogwans are now trying to the do the one way, flight reimbursement upon the first or second payday.
There are no shortage of jobs...it is just hey are all low ball jobs, with decreasing benefits, increasing hours and classes.
China, Vietnam, Thailand (being there is the benefit, and working multiple gigs without the swat team ready to deport you)...all looking good, with Korea in the rear view mirror, still blaming foreign teachers for its own mentally handicapped issues |
Why are they lowballing though? If they thought they were losing more money just biding their time waiting for a teacher they'd up the salaries. The truth is they probably find teachers pretty easily anyway, and/or the market isn't doing that great these days so it's more worthwhile for them to wait for a cheap teacher than to hire a slightly more expensive
foreigner.
These place care about money they wouldn't purposely lowball salaries just to spite NETs, some people (not saying you) seem to think that. The fact of the matter is, English isn't
that large of a market and it's pretty saturated/not much money to be made. Compartively speaking of course. As for working multiple gigs in China, the government
is every year upping it's game on clamping down on illegal schools, tuition and now people without real degrees. Conditions there aren't going to last much longer, although
how soon it'll take the nosedive I do not know. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| https://www.reddit.com/r/teachinginkorea/comments/49lwqt/whats_up_with_schools_only_offering_one_way_plane/ |
I think people have realized and accepted it now, most jobs advertise don't advertise return tickets now. I wonder what will be next on the list of benefits to kick the bucket, probably full subsidized housing. |
Because a lot of you folks are accepting, they are pulling it. Still there are two way flights still offered. There's a dope born every minute who falls for this scam. If everyone took a firm stand, they wouldn't pull it.
Either way, if you do accept it, you should get paid an extra 100,000 won a month so you can save up for the flight home, then. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I just noticed this reddit has no date on it. Maybe it's a year or two old? |
No. One month. Look at the faint gray letters.
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I think it's easier to get one of these jobs now compared to 3 or 4 years ago where it was much more hyper competitive. |
You keep saying that, but it's not true. Just like you kept saying the U.S. government was printing money until it was worthless. The reality is, the opposite is true. Inflation is 1% a year, and the U.S. dollar is very, very strong (unlike the suck @$$ Canadian dollar).
Let's look at some facts. The number of English language hagwons has been declining every year. Why are so many going out of business? One factor is less and less kids every year. (The Korean youth population peaked in 1978, and has been slowly declining ever since.) I know one hagwon (Avalon) which had nine native speakers on staff in 2010, but now only one. So many (maybe most?) English hagwons have all Korean English teachers- no natives. Maybe there has been a shift in thinking among Korean parents.
Yes, there are jobs- though less than before- but generally speaking, females are preferred. The number of male E-2s has dropped to 2005 levels. (Employers are becoming increasingly picky compared to before.)
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2016/03/when-it-comes-to-e-2-visa-holders-women.html
One more thing to note is right now is the best time of the year to be a job seeker. Why? A new set of four year college students will graduate the first week of May. Right before that is a bit harder to source native speakers. (Most Westerners who teach English in South Korea do so right out of college, and most stay for one year only.) |
As for the ads on that site, I have yet to see any foreign women around here looking like that. Those ads are a lie.
BTW, women teachers have fallen in number too. Folks are going back home and also moving onto other countries. A lot more I've met lately are staying for one year compared to before when folks stayed for 2 or 3 years to escape the recession. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I feel, and I could be wrong, that it is only going to get worse in Korea.
If it were not for the already horrid reputation that Korea has, perhaps one-way flights or a "flight allowance" would be square. But, ...let's face it, would any veteran here trust a Korean school to reimburse ones r/t airfare, after hopefully completing the contract?
Perhaps this is Korea's passive aggressive way to simply get rid of foreigners? |
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FastForward
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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The market is shrinking and there are less jobs than before from what I can see. However, I don't think schools are getting tons of people to pick from. My last school wanted me to find a teacher for them. I posted on Craigslist and got 4-5 people apply. Job was decent, probably better than most kindy jobs. The people that applied were not at the top of any list.
The school I'm currently at gets about 5-7 people when they need to hire someone. Last few job openings they got a total of 2 females that applied.
I'm seeing a higher demand for part time work and a lot of parents are wanting to do private classes to make it fun and less stressful for their kids. |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| FastForward wrote: |
The market is shrinking and there are less jobs than before from what I can see. However, I don't think schools are getting tons of people to pick from. My last school wanted me to find a teacher for them. I posted on Craigslist and got 4-5 people apply. Job was decent, probably better than most kindy jobs. The people that applied were not at the top of any list.
The school I'm currently at gets about 5-7 people when they need to hire someone. Last few job openings they got a total of 2 females that applied.
I'm seeing a higher demand for part time work and a lot of parents are wanting to do private classes to make it fun and less stressful for their kids. |
Part time work and private classes are where it's at these days.
Cha Ching……… $$$$$$$ |
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