Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Fallacy]

As I have recently received several PM queries on this topic, all of which raise similar issues, it seems more efficient and helpful to address them in public here, by opening a thread, rather than in separate replies in private there. This way, in addition to efficiency, I can offer whatever focused information on this topic that I can, plus other posters can add theirs as well. I have experience both forming, and serving on, candidate search and interview selection committees for hiring purposes several times in the past, both here in the ROK and abroad; I also have experience facing such committees as an applicant both here and abroad. Hopefully, from that I have gained a balanced view from both sides and any comments that follow will be helpful to others as they enter the Autumn hiring season. Good luck!

[Fallacy]

1. Are you applying from within the ROK, or from without?

Applicants applying from within the ROK always get the first, second, and last look by those tasked with searching, interviewing, and hiring new staff. This process is a pain, and faculty are not excited about it, so whatever requires the least amount of time and resources will be the preferred methodology. As such, that translates into exploiting networks and poaching known parties, and also means that invitation ads are NOT always put up in English, or on Dave's. Sorry. The best jobs go to insiders with contacts and are rarely advertised. The same goes for the worst jobs too, until that no longer works, and the net must grumblingly be cast wider.

2. Are you pedigreed from within the ROK, or from without?

Applicants with job experience here have the greatest advantage. They have proven capability to work, live and thrive in this environment, and thus will need the least amount of subsequent hand-holding, as evidenced by their documented history, which should show that they have managed to get and hold a university job for a minimum of 2 or more years in a row at the same institution. Next would be someone who worked at a university abroad for 2+ years, then came here to work in a public school or hagwon for 1 year, and are now stepping back up to the same level at which they were previously employed.

3. Are you degreed from a reputable university abroad, or without?

Understand straight away that online degrees are not respected in comparison to the standard on site degree programs. One of the first steps in screening for candidates is separating out the applicants with online diplomas, and binning them right away. This usually skims off half or more of them in my experience. The remainder are sorted by a points-based scoring criteria, and the lowest tier go in the trash bin as well. What is left are a handful of possible candidates to invite for face to face interview. Once those have been contacted, met and reviewed, if committees are satisfied, then the process is at an end; if not, or if the candidate given an offer later turns it down, then the process continues, and here is where someone abroad might receive an opportunity for remote interview.

[Fallacy]

Q + A

Q: I have a couple of years experience in teaching at university level in China, a year of high school in China, and a year at a technical high school in ROK. Would I be rejected?
A: At first glance, I would say no. Years of teaching experience at university level in native English speaking countries and/or in the ROK would be better, but keep in mind these additional caveats regardless: age, gender, nationality, race, health, and appearance are some of the more common "standard" measures. The more adherent to the standard you can be, the more your chances of being hired increase; the more deviant from the standard you are, the more you chances of being hired (or fired) increase.

4. Do you conform to the accepted "standard," or deviate from it?

Another word for standard here can be profile. Imagine yourself as a product with specifications. What are your "specs?" What are the specs which hiring committees value? Here, I must say that profiling does occur, and the sterotypes will mostly hold. Thus, the more closely you seem to fit the standard image, the better your chances for getting an invitation. Control the variables, and ignore the constants. In other words, you can change your attire, but you cannot change your passport or skin color. Dress for success, and hopefully that along with other similar manipulations will gain you enough points to counterbalance whatever your perceived drawbacks.

[Fallacy]

More Q + A

Q: How many more job ads will pop up between now and next Spring?
A:The flow of ads will gradually increase to late November, then drop off, and finally increase again in late January and early February. The second increase will reflect last-minute openings, and to those who are most patient, and in-country, that can be an excellent opportunity to step to the front of the line and get hired with comparatively no competition.

Q: I have applied to several job ads, and gotten some interest from China so far, but had no luck in Korea. What would you say are my odds of landing a university job in the ROK?
A: At first glance, I would say not good, but keep in mind the previously discussed "standards" as well as this additional caveat: degree level and content. If there are two candidates being considered for hire into a language training program, one with MA Linguistics, and the other with ABD Anthropology, all things being equal, the former gets a look and the latter gets trashed into the bin.

[GENO123]

Before applying to a Korean university (especially one of the big famous ones ) be sure know what you are getting into

The real conditions at big famous Korean universities.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15


Here is the big picture:


"At the top 40-50 universities or so " You can more or less sum it up this way : (e.g., actual working hours always being longer, sudden firings being common, salaries being low, no respect given to foreign faculty, etc. "

" Universities hire often and prune the dead wood"

Hire often (and fire often ) and and prune the dead wood for 34 - 44 million before any and all deductions isn't a particularly good job. What is so good about it? Remember sky is the limit for extra unpaid work . SKY IS THE LIMIT.

Remember if a hogwon that paid 2.3 claimed that they pay 3.0 because they pay housing airfare and severance they would get flamed for it .That is the real answer.

What is know as "contract hours" doesn't matter . What matters is total work and trouble compared to total compensation .

[Fallacy]

I second the assessment of GENO123 above. Definitely be sure to know as much as possible about what you are getting into before you accept an offer, make a committment, and sign a contract. I agree that too much focus on contract hours and salary can distract applicants from the reality. Remember that we, the search committee members, deliberately wrote the advertisement carefully to attract and/or distract the potential candidates to/from certain attributes which I will refer to as advantages and disadvantages. Attack the disadvantages or weaknesses first: whatever you think they are to you, list them; whatever remains are likely to be advantages or strengths, but take nothing for granted. Then, take that list and ask questions to the potential empoloyer, and keep asking, until satisfactory answers are given, or until the lack of information sharing serves as a danger "keep out" sign. QAC = question, answer, confirm. Send email early and often.

[Fallacy]

5. Does your training and experience meet or exceed the advertised expectations?

There are approximately 350 Colleges, Universities, and Technical Institutes in the ROK, yet only 2-3 dozen of these will have positions available during the current hiring season. As such, the screening process is important for narrowing the pile of applicants down to a handful of potential candidates. In order to answer this question, first look at all 4 ads put up on Dave's in the past 2 weeks, starting with the most recent, and focus specifically on the section entitled "qualifications" or "requirements," then decide if yours fit:

a. Seoul National University of Science and Technology
Posting Date: Monday, 12 October 2015, at 5:39 a.m.

Minimum Qualifications:
- Master's degree in any of the following subjects: TESOL, Applied Linguistics, CALL, and related fields. (An assessment of the candidate's English language proficiency may be required as part of the hiring process.)
- 4 years of documented experience in the field required (Years spent completing study/research/teaching during a graduate degree program will be counted towards those 4 years, e.g., 2 year MA program plus 2 additional years teaching experience, or 1 year MA program plus 3 additional years teaching experience)
* Candidates must have qualified degree in hand at the time of application deadline.
* The applications of those who do not meet these qualifications will not be reviewed.

b. Kookmin University College of General Education (located in Seoul)
Date: Thursday, 8 October 2015, at 11:37 a.m.

Qualifications
• Master's degree in TESOL or Applied Linguistics
• (Applications without the correct degree will not be considered.)
• Three years (minimum) of university teaching experience in ESL/EAP.
• Applicants should be currently residing in Korea

c. Hanseo University (not located in Seoul)
Date: Thursday, 8 October 2015, at 11:38 a.m.

Minimum Requirements:
• 4 years total experience combining education and work history (Example: Master's degree (2 year) and 2 years of university teaching experience or bachelor’s degree and 4 years of university teaching experience)

d. Kyungnam University (not located in Seoul)
Date: Wednesday, 30 September 2015, at 9:07 a.m.

QUALIFICATIONS:
Candidates must have a Master’s degree (TESOL, education, linguistics or a related field is preferred) plus a minimum of two years experience at the university level or three years experience at the middle/high school level. Teaching experience in private academies will not be counted.

Item "c" above appears to be the least restrictive option, yet still it is clear that they will only look at candidates with 2 or more years of documented experience working full-time in higher education. Items "a, b and d" are even more selective, which suggests that administration knows exactly who they want. In such cases, the position can go unfilled, and be covered by adjunct or part-time instructors in the short-term, if the right candidate is not found. In the past, perhaps any warm body would have sufficed, but those days are long gone. Item "a" above is even willing to consider non-native candidates, so be warned there that you face competition from locals as well.

[Chaucer]

I'm taking credit for "prune the dead wood"--I love that our guy re-posts it ad nauseum.

[GENO123]

[wonkavite62]

Well of course, you've mentioned profiling and "pruning the dead wood." The selection process for these jobs has become almost as rigorous as for professorial positions requiring Ph.d.'s and a thorough mastery of English Literature (and the body of literary criticism that goes with it). But is it really a professorial position that is being advertised? Or is it basically an "English language instructor" or conversation teacher, like you'd get in say, China?
Let us say, for the sake of argument, that 10 or 15 years ago, I had had a premonition. Let's say that I had known that I was going to teach EFL at a Korean university. So let's presume I had my master's degree in English linguistics, or American dialectology, or Ph.D in EFL or whatever.
Supposing I had come armed with a sheaf of ecstatic letters of recommendation, diplomas, and so on, I would still have to ask the most important question:
What's in it for ME? Never mind how important these universities think they are-what's in it for me? Where's the money? Show me the dough. What would I get from these jobs that I'd not get from a similar position in China? In what ways would it be better than teaching in public schools?

[GENO123]

Pay is low and you arent well trated either.

[jackson7]

[Fallacy]

[GENO123]

[jackson7]