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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:19 am Post subject: Global Warming part deux |
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Since the original thread is over 50 pages in length, I figured I'd start a new one since there is new data to discuss (from this year in fact). Remember the sensationalist claims about the ice caps melting?
Not only is that NOT happening but the reserve is actually occurring.
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The late 1970s marked the end of a 30-year cooling trend. As a result, the polar ice caps were quite likely more extensive than they had been since at least the 1920s...
...In late 2012, however, polar ice dramatically rebounded and quickly surpassed the post-1979 average. Ever since, the polar ice caps have been at a greater average extent than the post-1979 mean.
Now, in May 2015, the updated NASA data show polar sea ice is approximately 5 percent above the post-1979 average. |
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2015/05/19/updated-nasa-data-polar-ice-not-receding-after-all/
So why are global warming alarmists still banging this drum?
This might shed some light
http://wichitaliberty.org/environment/global-warming-alarmism-the-money-motive/
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Ottmar Edenhofer, a German economist and co-chair of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Working Group III on Mitigation of Climate Change (say that twice), told the Neue Zurcher Zeitung last week: “The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War.” After all, redistributing global wealth is no small matter.
Edenhofer let the environmental cat out of the bag when he said “climate policy is redistributing the world’s wealth” and that “it’s a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Year after year, warmest temps ever recorded. Melting ice caps. Record-strength hurricanes. Droughts & historic wildfires. Wildllife dying. The island I'm living on facing extinction.
Exactly because of attitudes like yours. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
Year after year, warmest temps ever recorded. Melting ice caps. Record-strength hurricanes. Droughts & historic wildfires. Wildllife dying. The island I'm living on facing extinction.
Exactly because of attitudes like yours. |
Except that few if any of those events are actually occurring
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2014/05/21/global-warming-alarmists-are-getting-desperate/
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| In the face of the inconvenient truths that hurricane activity has been on the decline and there was a frustratingly dismal season of storms for alarmists last year, that record cold temperatures last winter can hardly be blamed on global warming , that the slowing rate of increase in global temperatures is on the verge of falling beneath even the lowest projections of virtually all climate-change models, the alarmists are trying to keep global warming hysteria hot by throwing pocketbook issues into the furnace |
How about providing a few links to support your position?
As for attitudes like mine...that has nothing to do with it. The ice caps are NOT melting as proved by NASA data.
I would tend to think NASA knows a little more about this than you do.
As for record temps they were indeed set...but they were set for cold levels not heat levels.
http://www.weather.com/storms/winter/news/arctic-cold-outbreak-november-locked-20141110#/!
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| There have been more than 400 record lows and record cool highs set, covering 43 states, since Sunday. That leaves only five states in the contiguous U.S., all in New England, that have not experienced record cold temperatures this week |
I've backed up my statements with easily found data on the Internet. Your turn. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming part deux |
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So I looked this guy up & here's his stance on climate change: ”Denying out and out that climate change is a problem for humanity, as some cynics do, is an unethical, unacceptable position.” |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming part deux |
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| schwa wrote: |
So I looked this guy up & here's his stance on climate change: ”Denying out and out that climate change is a problem for humanity, as some cynics do, is an unethical, unacceptable position.” |
Notice the shamming tactic in the words..."unethical", "unacceptable"...
It really is funny. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Global Cooling was a dozen articles/studies versus hundreds that predicted global warming even during the 70's. |
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Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming part deux |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://wichitaliberty.org/environment/global-warming-alarmism-the-money-motive/
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Ottmar Edenhofer, a German economist and co-chair of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Working Group III on Mitigation of Climate Change (say that twice), told the Neue Zurcher Zeitung last week: “The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War.” After all, redistributing global wealth is no small matter.
Edenhofer let the environmental cat out of the bag when he said “climate policy is redistributing the world’s wealth” and that “it’s a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. |
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Not just Edenhofer.
UN IPCC Lead Author Dr. Richard Tol Mocks UN Climate Treaty Process As ‘Futile Effort’ Where Countries ‘Pretend To Reduce Emissions’
http://www.climatedepot.com/2015/10/30/un-ipcc-lead-author-dr-richard-tol-mocks-un-climate-treaty-process-as-futile-effort-where-countries-pretend-to-reduce-emissions/
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Dr. Richard Tol: 'Countries are 'sending people to [UN Summit in] Paris for no apparent reason other than to keep these people well-travelled.'
'The discussion is now about money. How much do rich countries need to pay poor countries to pretend to reduce emissions?'
'Climate policy has been about rewarding allies with rents and subsides rather than emission reduction.' |
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Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
| The island I'm living on facing extinction. |
It is this kind of alarmist garbage that originally made question the AGW dogma. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Axiom wrote: |
| schwa wrote: |
| The island I'm living on facing extinction. |
It is this kind of alarmist garbage that originally made question the AGW dogma. |
Explain that to the islanders I live among who have watched their subsistence farming seriously damaged by unprecedented "king waves" that salinate the soil; that experience typhoons of a strength & frequency they have never seen before; that are watching their shorelines disappear; where the oldtimers used to have a good handle on seasonal weather patterns but now just admit, "Who knows?"; where island governments are negotiating with higher-lying countries about mass evacuation with "dignity" rather than as "climate refugees"; where vital 1000-year-old cultures are in real danger of disappearing altogether within your lifetime.
Life good in your bubble? |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| The last time Axiom came to this forum, I cannot remember what he said about ocean acidification, but I cannot recall that it was very convincing. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Cigarette smoking is self-evidently bad for one's health. It's basic common sense that such a thing would have destructive impacts. Sure you had some paid/quack doctors who claimed it wasn't bad back in the 50s, but people weren't that dumb.
Man-made pollution having destructive effects on the planet is as self-evident as smoking and the "science" against it is about as believable as "4 out of 5 doctors recommend Chesterfields". |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming part deux |
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| Axiom wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://wichitaliberty.org/environment/global-warming-alarmism-the-money-motive/
| Quote: |
Ottmar Edenhofer, a German economist and co-chair of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Working Group III on Mitigation of Climate Change (say that twice), told the Neue Zurcher Zeitung last week: “The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War.” After all, redistributing global wealth is no small matter.
Edenhofer let the environmental cat out of the bag when he said “climate policy is redistributing the world’s wealth” and that “it’s a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. |
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Not just Edenhofer.
UN IPCC Lead Author Dr. Richard Tol Mocks UN Climate Treaty Process As ‘Futile Effort’ Where Countries ‘Pretend To Reduce Emissions’
http://www.climatedepot.com/2015/10/30/un-ipcc-lead-author-dr-richard-tol-mocks-un-climate-treaty-process-as-futile-effort-where-countries-pretend-to-reduce-emissions/
| Quote: |
Dr. Richard Tol: 'Countries are 'sending people to [UN Summit in] Paris for no apparent reason other than to keep these people well-travelled.'
'The discussion is now about money. How much do rich countries need to pay poor countries to pretend to reduce emissions?'
'Climate policy has been about rewarding allies with rents and subsides rather than emission reduction.' |
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Quotations taken out of context are fantastic, aren't they? Both of these individuals are very clearly castigating UN member states, particularly those from developed countries, for not doing enough to mitigate climate change. They are not saying that climate change isn't real or that it isn't something that we need to seriously address.
You also need to realize that the UN is all about mainstreaming certain concepts and ideas. You can sit in on any UN committee and they'll say that you can't talk about X, Y, or Z without talking about globalization/human rights/women's rights/development.
And how can you talk about climate change without talking about the major themes of globalization? The 2030 Agenda holds that countries need to simultaneously keep their emissions down while also guaranteeing the right to development for all. That's an inherent contradiction. You can't talk about one thing without talking about the other. It's a pointless endeavor. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming part deux |
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| northway wrote: |
[
Quotations taken out of context are fantastic, aren't they? Both of these individuals are very clearly castigating UN member states, particularly those from developed countries, for not doing enough to mitigate climate change. They are not saying that climate change isn't real or that it isn't something that we need to seriously address.
. |
Yes they have to toe the accepted line or they wouldn't be heard. But regardless they are also clearly pointing out that climate change is as much as about the money as it is about the weather.
And since the latest NASA data (see my first post) seems to clearly fly in the face of this "global warming" it is interesting that people are not addressing it. As for climate change..it's mostly due to natural causes...the earth's climate has gone through many, many drastic climate changes with out the benefit of man made global warming (AGW). That's why AGW is just a drop in the bucket so as speak. We've had hotter summers and colder winters before in the planet's history again without mankind having a single thing to do with it.
And finally...if AGW is such a terrible threat...then why did certain scientists feel the need to lie about it and supress data which didn't agree with their pre-conceived conclusions? AKA "Climategate"
If there is real clear proof...then it shouldn't need to be padded, manipulated, and opposing data shouldn't be ignored.
And again as for global warming...here's some CRU scientists (aka global warming advocates) talking about it in private emails among themselves.
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These e-mails show, among many other things, private admissions of doubt or scientific weakness in the global warming theory. In acknowledging that global temperatures have actually declined for the past decade, one scientist asks, "where the heck is global warming?... The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't." They still can't account for it; see a new article in Der Spiegel: "Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out." I don't know where these people got their scientific education, but where I come from, if your theory can't predict or explain the observed facts, it's wrong.
More seriously, in one e-mail, a prominent global warming alarmist admits to using a statistical "trick" to "hide the decline" in temperatures. Anthony Watts provides an explanation of this case in technical detail; the "trick" consists of selectively mixing two different kinds of data-temperature "proxies" from tree rings and actual thermometer measurements-in a way designed to produce a graph of global temperatures that ends the way the global warming establishment wants it to: with an upward "hockey stick" slope...
So it's no surprise when another e-mail refers to an attempt to keep inconvenient scientific findings out of a UN report: "I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. K and I will keep them out somehow-even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" Think of all of this the next time you hear someone invoke the authority of peer review-or of the UN's IPCC reports-as backing for claims about global warming. |
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/11/24/the_fix_is_in_99280.html
Once again if it is so clear cut...then why are global warming alarmists having to manipulate data in order to get the results they want? |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Cigarette smoking is self-evidently bad for one's health. It's basic common sense that such a thing would have destructive impacts. Sure you had some paid/quack doctors who claimed it wasn't bad back in the 50s, but people weren't that dumb.
Man-made pollution having destructive effects on the planet is as self-evident as smoking and the "science" against it is about as believable as "4 out of 5 doctors recommend Chesterfields". |
And of course, there is SR and his routine of sound bite journalism.
5 out 5 doctors do not recommend SR. |
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