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Do Koreans not believe in child car seats or seat belts?
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:56 pm Post subject:

In a lab setting, its probably safer for kids on a school bus to wear seatbelts. But a school bus isn't a lab. It's public transportation with 60 kids/adolescents with one person to supervise them who is getting paid $10/hr and has to get them there on time. Making sure every kid was buckled up would be impossible. Kids would turn them into weapons and try to actively destroy them. I picture Nelson Muntz, Jimbo, Dolph, and Kearney tying Milhouse up with those and turning it into some sort of vehicular rack of pain. I don't think we can really point to seat belts on school buses as indicative of safety practices. School buses and school food are two examples of things that come from the same factory and get supplied to our nation's soldiers, schools, and prisons.

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

In a lab setting, its probably safer for kids on a school bus to wear seatbelts.

But a school bus isn't a lab. It's public transportation with 60 kids/adolescents with one person to supervise them who is getting paid $10/hr and has to get them there on time. Making sure every kid was buckled up would be impossible. Kids would turn them into weapons and try to actively destroy them. I picture Nelson Muntz, Jimbo, Dolph, and Kearney tying Milhouse up with those and turning it into some sort of vehicular rack of pain.

I don't think we can really point to seat belts on school buses as indicative of safety practices. School buses and school food are two examples of things that come from the same factory and get supplied to our nation's soldiers, schools, and prisons.

Prison buses have restraints, though I'm not sure how much they add to the vehicles' safety.

cazzy3

Joined: 07 May 2008
Location: kangwon-do

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:38 am Post subject:

OP...stand your ground. I had the same situation with my in-laws and my daughter. I told them, "No front seat driving with our toddler and no 'holding'. Put her in a seat belt." They got it. As for Koreans and their decisions toward child safety: to each their own. After ten years here, I don't care what they do so long it doesn't affect me and my personal beliefs.

greatunknown

Joined: 04 Feb 2010

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:45 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

greatunknown wrote:

Well we were in the car today and I was in the front passenger seat and was reminded to buckle up by my wifes brother who was behind the wheel (was already on it and the car had barely moved but we were parked on the side of the road and a police car was driving by). The police do evidently ticket people for not wearing seatbelts only if they are sitting in the front seat. It seems most Koreans are aware of this and abide by the law.

We were riding in a large van fully loaded up with passengers of all ages. The folks sitting in the back of course did not wear their seatbelts and his young childen were playing and climbing over the seats and what not.

So you suggest Koreans buckle up in the front, but not in the back? That would reconcile with my experiences well enough. The whole Koreans-not-using-carseats-for-babies idea still strikes me as odd, though: I can believe that they'll occasionally hold their kid while riding in someone else's car (which is dangerous, yes), but I've worked with Koreans who are the parents, and they tend to own car seats. We got our own first set of car seats second hand, and then we passed them on to someone else when our kids outgrew them. Koreans definitely use these things in a general sense.

greatunknown wrote:

Ive never owned a car in Korea although I do carry a Korean drivers license. With a child on the way it looks like we will be requireing a vehicle of our own. I intend to set an example for them

Yep, family is why I gave up on relying on public transportation and got a car. Setting a good example is a good idea: telling a Korean, or a human in general for that matter, "Hey, you're doing something wrong," often just results in defensiveness, but examples can be effective.

I've really only just started noticing the car seat thing and, its good to hear many (most?) Do use the car seats. Thats why I was asking. I might pick one up for my SIL, its possible they just dont have the money right now.

My siblings and friends back in Canada have told me they wont even let you take your newborn out of the hospital without a car seat these days. I know lots of Korea is a bit behind in terms of driving safety but perhaps there has been some progress

Lazio

Joined: 15 Dec 2010

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:10 am Post subject:

greatunknown wrote:

I might pick one up for my SIL, its possible they just dont have the money right now.

That's BS! I bet they got the latest smartphones.

One can get a decent, used car seat with years untill expiry, for a couple of manwons.

greatunknown

Joined: 04 Feb 2010

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:37 am Post subject:

Lazio wrote:

greatunknown wrote:

I might pick one up for my SIL, its possible they just dont have the money right now.

That's BS! I bet they got the latest smartphones.

One can get a decent, used car seat with years untill expiry, for a couple of manwons.

They do not have new phones. You can take what I said at face value, trust me. They might living beyond their means a little but those decisions were made and contracts signed before they had the baby.

No need for cynicism if we can help it! Not always easy, I know

Adam Carolla

Joined: 26 Feb 2010

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:06 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Adam Carolla wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Quote:

South Korea

Article 50 of South Korea’s Road Traffic Act states the following:

(1) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall fasten the seat belt thereof while driving his/her motor vehicle and require any passenger seated beside him/her to fasten that passenger's seat belt (in cases of an infant, this refers to the seat belt after an infant safety harness is mounted; hereinafter the same shall apply): Provided, That the same shall not apply to cases where it is difficult to fasten the seat belt due to any illness, etc. or due to any ground prescribed by Ordinance of the Ministry of Public Administration and Security.

(2) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall remind passengers, other than passenger sitting beside the driver to fasten their seat belts, and in cases of any automobile, if an infant takes a seat other than the seat beside the driver, the driver shall fasten such infant’s seat belt.[49]

[49] Act No. 7545, amended by Act No. 10790, June 8, 2011, art. 50, ¶¶ 1 & 2.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/child-restraint-and-seatbelt-regulations/index.php

Passed into law (as we can see) in 2011.

As for not wearing seatbelts, what about school buses back home? What about public buses? Never worn a seatbelt on either of those...for the simple fact that there weren't any. (Although things may have changed since those times.)

Not that this excuses Korea for its lax regard in the slightest...only that it sounds slightly hypocritical on our part. Let's hope if one is back home that they will ALWAYS drive their child to school and never put their child on the bus. As for those millions of parents in North America who put their child on the bus every day...are people going to say that they must not care about their kids as much as expat parents in Korea do?

It would have taken literally seconds to figure this out for yourself. Seconds. First link. THE FIRST LINK!

http://www.americanschoolbuscouncil.org/school-bus-information-and-statistics/faq/why-dont-school-buses-have-seat-belts

Now granted, my google foo is pretty strong. I'm sure you were incapable of typing "no seatbelts on school bus".

Quote:

School buses are carefully designed on a different transportation and protection model than the average passenger car. The children are protected like eggs in an egg carton – compartmentalized, and surrounded with padding and structural integrity to secure the entire container. The seat backs are raised and the shell is reinforced for protection against impact.

TUM, you always cease to amaze.

Here are some reports on what the National Transportation Safety Board thinks of "compartmentalization"

http://www.ncsbs.org/testimonies/seat_belt_background.htm

Quote:

In September of 1999, just as the NHTSA study was beginning, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) issued a report on school bus crashworthiness. The study found “compartmentalization” was ineffective during six typical school bus accidents. In every example the 222 seat failed to contain the passengers. Children were injured and killed as a result of both ejection and being tossed violently within the bus itself. The Board concluded that:

Current compartmentalization is incomplete in that it does not protect school bus passengers during lateral impacts with vehicles of large mass and in rollovers, because in such accidents, passengers do not always remain completely within the seating compartment.

The Board went on to point out that passengers who were propelled from the “compartment” were the ones more likely to be injured during side impact and rollover collisions.

Quote:

NHTSA 2002 Report:
After four years of effort and at a cost to taxpayers of hundreds of thousands of dollars, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) again failed to properly identify “compromised compartmentalization” as a design defects in school buses and refused to implement needed safety improvements to protect the 25 million children who ride school buses back and forth to school every school day.

Quote:

In preparing the current April 2002, “REPORT TO CONGRESS, School Bus Safety: Crashwothiness Research,” in order to assess crash outcomes, NHTSA analyzed 31 actual crashes. Just nine (29%) were front end. In spite of the fact that 7 out of 10 of these real world accidents were not frontal, NHTSA made no attempt to evaluate the effectiveness of “compartmentalization” in protecting the young passengers in all real world crash configurations. Had NHTSA chosen to evaluate the complete range of all accident possibilities, they would certainly have concluded, as did the NTSB, that “compartmentalization” was compromised and incomplete

And as we can see this is not a new issue...these reports were made years ago. And this remains a current issue.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/ntsb-nhtsa-disagree-school-bus-seat-belts-193010876.html

Some states do now require lap belts on school buses but many do not.

So, are you defending your remark about westerners being hypocrites for allowing kids to ride school buses (while thinking Koreans should buckle up in cars?) Still think that's a valid point? I really, really, hope you still think it's a valid point.

Lazio

Joined: 15 Dec 2010

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:18 am Post subject:

greatunknown wrote:

Lazio wrote:

greatunknown wrote:

I might pick one up for my SIL, its possible they just dont have the money right now.

That's BS! I bet they got the latest smartphones.

One can get a decent, used car seat with years untill expiry, for a couple of manwons.

Perhaps they are really poor and can’t afford a 20,000-30,000 used car seat for their child’s safety. If they can’t afford that much they also must have an empty fridge and unpaid utility bills.
If they aren’t that poor than clearly they don’t feel the car seat is necessary and are okay with the holding on the lap method. That was my point.

Here is a related article, although a bit outdated since it’s from 10 years ago:
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2795135

sligo

Joined: 15 Oct 2008

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:19 am Post subject:

If you can afford to buy, insure and fill up a car, you can afford a car seat!

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:14 am Post subject:

Adam Carolla wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Adam Carolla wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Quote:

TUM, you always cease to amaze.

Here are some reports on what the National Transportation Safety Board thinks of "compartmentalization"

http://www.ncsbs.org/testimonies/seat_belt_background.htm

Quote:

If one is fine with his kid riding in a vehicle without a seatbelt while moaning and complaining about OTHERS (be they Korean or Westerners) riding without a seatbelt, then exactly what would you call that? Most people would say that's a textbook example of hypocrisy. Now granted school buses are slightly safer than other vehicles due to this factor of “compartmentalization” if the crash happens to be a headon crash but I wouldn't be playing the odds with my children.

Quote:

The study found “compartmentalization” was ineffective during six typical school bus accidents. In every example the 222 seat failed to contain the passengers. Children were injured and killed as a result of both ejection and being tossed violently within the bus itself

Seems like a seatbelt or better yet a three point harness would have prevented both ejection and being tossed violently.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:21 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Several states have now introduced seatbelts into school buses...they seem to be doing okay for now.

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0055.htm

greatunknown

Joined: 04 Feb 2010

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:51 pm Post subject:

Lazio wrote:

greatunknown wrote:

Lazio wrote:

greatunknown wrote:

I might pick one up for my SIL, its possible they just dont have the money right now.

That's BS! I bet they got the latest smartphones.

One can get a decent, used car seat with years untill expiry, for a couple of manwons.

Off topic I know but, I think your probably imagining these people as your typical Louis Vuitton hand bag carrying "newest smartphone" using spoilt late 20's Korean "adults" that we see in Apgujeong cafe's checking themselves out in the mirror, fixing their hair for 45 minutes straight. Don't blame you! Ive been in Korea a long time too and its hard not to get cynicle

If they were that sort I would quickly tell them to stop fixing their damn hair and use that smartphone they stare at 10 hours a day to read up on basic safety for their families sake.

He's a factory worker and they live in a rural part of Gyeonggi. Sweetest kind of people Ive ever met! They're not stupid by any means. I get the impression theyre just following the status quo which is why I started the thread.

OBwannabe

Joined: 16 Feb 2008

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:38 pm Post subject:

OBwannabe wrote:

Fox wrote:

My wife and I wear our seatbelts, and we have car seats for our children. The Koreans with whom I drive generally seen to wear seatbelts, and the Korean parents I know use car seats. I am not denying the reality of other people's anecdotes here, simply sharing my own observations. Many Koreans do seem to use both seatbelts and car seats.

You seem to be living in a special kind of bubble. Go stand on a street corner and take a look at the cars as they pass by. For every car that has kids in it, how many are using car seats?

I've lived in Korea for a long time and I'm sure the amount of times I've seen kids strapped in is fewer than a dozen. But on my 20 min walk to work and 20 min walk home I see several cars each day with kids on laps or roaming free in moving cars. I've definitely have not seen a car seat since I've started my current job last August. Baffles me.

Yes, I just quoted myself.

Guess what I saw on my walk to work yesterday...a kid in a car seat! First time I've seen that in a long time.

BigBuds

Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Changwon

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:39 am Post subject:

jvalmer wrote:

BigBuds wrote:

The Parents Rights Group were the ones to get the law removed of all people. Huge face palm moment.

They argued that Koreans shouldn't have to follow what other countries do as Korean parents know what's best for their own children. The simple fact that it had nothing to do with what other countries were doing and everything to do with basic safety commonsense went completely over their heads.

First thing, I want to know if this true, or another one of many myths we foreigners like to spout off?

Second, perhaps the government can hike the fines for not wearing seatbelts into the 200k-won/passenger range applied to the driver of the car. And show hard hitting TV ads just like those smoking ads. Maybe a blooded mother, and baby, who weren't wearing seatbelts, after a car crash would do the trick with a lot of people.

If memory servers, it was about a decade ago. I know it was definitely before my son was born, and he's eight now.

Adam Carolla

Joined: 26 Feb 2010

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:16 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Adam Carolla wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Adam Carolla wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Quote:

TUM, you always cease to amaze.

Here are some reports on what the National Transportation Safety Board thinks of "compartmentalization"

http://www.ncsbs.org/testimonies/seat_belt_background.htm

Quote:

No, you disingenuous asshat. It's not about seatbelts vs. no seatbelts. As you very well are aware of.

It's:

Children in cars without seatbelts. (Westerners feel more dangerous than the norm.)

Children in cars WITH seatbelts. (Westerners view as the norm.)

Children in buses without seatbelts. (Westerners view as the norm and ADDITIONALLY, you moron, is safer than either of the above, statistically.)

So, dummy, no, there is no hypocrisy. It's not about seatbelts/no seatbelts, it's about what is safer. Which I suspect you know very well, but again, can't bring yourself to admit because you're the type of person who absolutely has to correct even when making asinine remarks that are completely indefensible. What's amusing to me is that you don't realize at all how you come across...People reading this know who is being reasonable and who isn't. And, hey, guess what, this is why I engaged you. I enjoy you showing the world exactly what kind of person you are. (Immature, can't admit fault even when incredibly obvious, etc.)

So thank you for that.

Edit: Please argue more. There's nothing I would love more than to illustrate what an obnoxious, immature, faux know-it-all you are. Being unable to admit an error...Well, I will leave you with this:

http://narcissisticpersonalitydisorder.org/

Make of it what you will. (but anyone who knows you, upon reading that, will think "Hammer, meet nail."

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