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Do Koreans not believe in child car seats or seat belts?
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OBwannabe



Joined: 16 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
My wife and I wear our seatbelts, and we have car seats for our children. The Koreans with whom I drive generally seen to wear seatbelts, and the Korean parents I know use car seats. I am not denying the reality of other people's anecdotes here, simply sharing my own observations. Many Koreans do seem to use both seatbelts and car seats.


You seem to be living in a special kind of bubble. Go stand on a street corner and take a look at the cars as they pass by. For every car that has kids in it, how many are using car seats?

I've lived in Korea for a long time and I'm sure the amount of times I've seen kids strapped in is fewer than a dozen. But on my 20 min walk to work and 20 min walk home I see several cars each day with kids on laps or roaming free in moving cars. I've definitely have not seen a car seat since I've started my current job last August. Baffles me.
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OBwannabe



Joined: 16 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These things do take time though. I remember back when some parents held their kids on their laps in cars. Actually, I think my mom did it from time to time. I'm 40 though, so that was awhile ago.

I also remember the government putting on a big awareness campaign. That changed everything....that and the thorough enforcement of seatbelt laws.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greatunknown wrote:
coralreefer_1 wrote:
I cant help but laugh at the irony of this thread. People are moaning about other not wearing safety belts, or the laws not enforcing such use, ...yet most would be the same people passing around gifs and articles that link back in one form or another to their government back home infringing on the rights of their people and being too much of a "big brother" to the citizens.

I'm not sure why things are so difficult for some. Wear the seat belt...or dont. Have your family wear it, or dont. Have in the laws wear it...or dont. Have a child seat, or dont.

Any guy having to deal with a wife or in-laws that resist the notion of wearing a seat belt or using a child safety seat in their own car likely faces such becausee they were a pushover weak man in the past...giving that wife and those in-laws the impression that you can be negotiated with or otherwise manipulated on even the most basic of principals. They resist because they know (or have been led to believe) that you are not strong-willed enough to stand up and law things down in concrete.

Its not a shot at Korean culture....its a shot at being a man from day 1.....not day 890.


Hahaha. Yeah man maybe!

Funny response


For real, hit on 2 Dave's classics- Beta Males and the generally anti-gubment tone of the current events forum.
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
greatunknown wrote:
Fox wrote:
My wife and I wear our seatbelts, and we have car seats for our children. The Koreans with whom I drive generally seen to wear seatbelts, and the Korean parents I know use car seats. I am not denying the reality of other people's anecdotes here, simply sharing my own observations. Many Koreans do seem to use both seatbelts and car seats.


Well thats good! Not just in the front seat? Back seats too?


I don't know for sure about the back seats. Usually when I'm driving with a Korean, it's just two of us, so we're both up front. I know people often don't buckle up in taxis, though, and the belt buckles in taxis are frequently pushed deep down into the cracks between the seats.


Well we were in the car today and I was in the front passenger seat and was reminded to buckle up by my wifes brother who was behind the wheel (was already on it and the car had barely moved but we were parked on the side of the road and a police car was driving by). The police do evidently ticket people for not wearing seatbelts only if they are sitting in the front seat. It seems most Koreans are aware of this and abide by the law

We were riding in a large van fully loaded up with passengers of all ages. The folks sitting in the back of course did not wear their seatbelts and his young childen were playing and climbing over the seats and what not.

Ive never owned a car in Korea although I do carry a Korean drivers license. With a child on the way it looks like we will be requireing a vehicle of our own. I intend to set an example for them
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sligo



Joined: 15 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greatunknown wrote:
Fox wrote:
greatunknown wrote:
Fox wrote:
My wife and I wear our seatbelts, and we have car seats for our children. The Koreans with whom I drive generally seen to wear seatbelts, and the Korean parents I know use car seats. I am not denying the reality of other people's anecdotes here, simply sharing my own observations. Many Koreans do seem to use both seatbelts and car seats.


Well thats good! Not just in the front seat? Back seats too?


I don't know for sure about the back seats. Usually when I'm driving with a Korean, it's just two of us, so we're both up front. I know people often don't buckle up in taxis, though, and the belt buckles in taxis are frequently pushed deep down into the cracks between the seats.


Well we were in the car today and I was in the front passenger seat and was reminded to buckle up by my wifes brother who was behind the wheel (was already on it and the car had barely moved but we were parked on the side of the road and a police car was driving by). The police do evidently ticket people for not wearing seatbelts only if they are sitting in the front seat. It seems most Koreans are aware of this and abide by the law

We were riding in a large van fully loaded up with passengers of all ages. The folks sitting in the back of course did not wear their seatbelts and his young childen were playing and climbing over the seats and what not.


Ive never owned a car in Korea although I do carry a Korean drivers license. With a child on the way it looks like we will be requireing a vehicle of our own. I intend to set an example for them


That's the problem, Koreans do not see it as a safety issue. they don't seem to realise that everyonne should be buckled in "just in case". they see it as a legal issue: "If the police see me i will be fined". The way to get a Korean's attention? Hit him in the wallet. Why not make the law cover back seats as well? This will save lives, bring in revenue for car seat companies, and improve the government coffers through fines for arses who fail to comply.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greatunknown wrote:

Well we were in the car today and I was in the front passenger seat and was reminded to buckle up by my wifes brother who was behind the wheel (was already on it and the car had barely moved but we were parked on the side of the road and a police car was driving by). The police do evidently ticket people for not wearing seatbelts only if they are sitting in the front seat. It seems most Koreans are aware of this and abide by the law.

We were riding in a large van fully loaded up with passengers of all ages. The folks sitting in the back of course did not wear their seatbelts and his young childen were playing and climbing over the seats and what not.


So you suggest Koreans buckle up in the front, but not in the back? That would reconcile with my experiences well enough. The whole Koreans-not-using-carseats-for-babies idea still strikes me as odd, though: I can believe that they'll occasionally hold their kid while riding in someone else's car (which is dangerous, yes), but I've worked with Koreans who are the parents, and they tend to own car seats. We got our own first set of car seats second hand, and then we passed them on to someone else when our kids outgrew them. Koreans definitely use these things in a general sense.

greatunknown wrote:
Ive never owned a car in Korea although I do carry a Korean drivers license. With a child on the way it looks like we will be requireing a vehicle of our own. I intend to set an example for them


Yep, family is why I gave up on relying on public transportation and got a car. Setting a good example is a good idea: telling a Korean, or a human in general for that matter, "Hey, you're doing something wrong," often just results in defensiveness, but examples can be effective.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBuds wrote:
The Parents Rights Group were the ones to get the law removed of all people. Huge face palm moment.

They argued that Koreans shouldn't have to follow what other countries do as Korean parents know what's best for their own children. The simple fact that it had nothing to do with what other countries were doing and everything to do with basic safety commonsense went completely over their heads.

First thing, I want to know if this true, or another one of many myths we foreigners like to spout off?

Second, perhaps the government can hike the fines for not wearing seatbelts into the 200k-won/passenger range applied to the driver of the car. And show hard hitting TV ads just like those smoking ads. Maybe a blooded mother, and baby, who weren't wearing seatbelts, after a car crash would do the trick with a lot of people.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
South Korea


Article 50 of South Korea’s Road Traffic Act states the following:


(1) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall fasten the seat belt thereof while driving his/her motor vehicle and require any passenger seated beside him/her to fasten that passenger's seat belt (in cases of an infant, this refers to the seat belt after an infant safety harness is mounted; hereinafter the same shall apply): Provided, That the same shall not apply to cases where it is difficult to fasten the seat belt due to any illness, etc. or due to any ground prescribed by Ordinance of the Ministry of Public Administration and Security.

(2) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall remind passengers, other than passenger sitting beside the driver to fasten their seat belts, and in cases of any automobile, if an infant takes a seat other than the seat beside the driver, the driver shall fasten such infant’s seat belt.[49]






[49] Act No. 7545, amended by Act No. 10790, June 8, 2011, art. 50, ¶¶ 1 & 2.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/child-restraint-and-seatbelt-regulations/index.php

Passed into law (as we can see) in 2011.

As for not wearing seatbelts, what about school buses back home? What about public buses? Never worn a seatbelt on either of those...for the simple fact that there weren't any. (Although things may have changed since those times.)

Not that this excuses Korea for its lax regard in the slightest...only that it sounds slightly hypocritical on our part. Let's hope if one is back home that they will ALWAYS drive their child to school and never put their child on the bus. As for those millions of parents in North America who put their child on the bus every day...are people going to say that they must not care about their kids as much as expat parents in Korea do?
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Adam Carolla



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Quote:
South Korea


Article 50 of South Korea’s Road Traffic Act states the following:


(1) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall fasten the seat belt thereof while driving his/her motor vehicle and require any passenger seated beside him/her to fasten that passenger's seat belt (in cases of an infant, this refers to the seat belt after an infant safety harness is mounted; hereinafter the same shall apply): Provided, That the same shall not apply to cases where it is difficult to fasten the seat belt due to any illness, etc. or due to any ground prescribed by Ordinance of the Ministry of Public Administration and Security.

(2) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall remind passengers, other than passenger sitting beside the driver to fasten their seat belts, and in cases of any automobile, if an infant takes a seat other than the seat beside the driver, the driver shall fasten such infant’s seat belt.[49]






[49] Act No. 7545, amended by Act No. 10790, June 8, 2011, art. 50, ¶¶ 1 & 2.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/child-restraint-and-seatbelt-regulations/index.php

Passed into law (as we can see) in 2011.

As for not wearing seatbelts, what about school buses back home? What about public buses? Never worn a seatbelt on either of those...for the simple fact that there weren't any. (Although things may have changed since those times.)

Not that this excuses Korea for its lax regard in the slightest...only that it sounds slightly hypocritical on our part. Let's hope if one is back home that they will ALWAYS drive their child to school and never put their child on the bus. As for those millions of parents in North America who put their child on the bus every day...are people going to say that they must not care about their kids as much as expat parents in Korea do?


It would have taken literally seconds to figure this out for yourself. Seconds. First link. THE FIRST LINK!

http://www.americanschoolbuscouncil.org/school-bus-information-and-statistics/faq/why-dont-school-buses-have-seat-belts

Now granted, my google foo is pretty strong. I'm sure you were incapable of typing "no seatbelts on school bus".

Quote:
School buses are carefully designed on a different transportation and protection model than the average passenger car. The children are protected like eggs in an egg carton – compartmentalized, and surrounded with padding and structural integrity to secure the entire container. The seat backs are raised and the shell is reinforced for protection against impact.


TUM, you always cease to amaze.
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cdninkorea



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coralreefer_1 wrote:
I cant help but laugh at the irony of this thread. People are moaning about other not wearing safety belts, or the laws not enforcing such use, ...yet most would be the same people passing around gifs and articles that link back in one form or another to their government back home infringing on the rights of their people and being too much of a "big brother" to the citizens.


Children are different. If an adult wants to go without a seatbelt, it's none of the government's business; if we're talking about a parent endangering a baby, the government has a role in preventing that.
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Flake



Joined: 24 Dec 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If an adult wants to go without a seatbelt, it's none of the government's business

- That same government has to pay for you to be spoon-fed for the rest of your life when you get thrown across the highway. It is their damn business.
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goat



Joined: 23 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

- The same government that will have to pay for the diabetes medicine for the big eaters.
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sligo



Joined: 15 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was driving today along a major road and notice the car directly in front of me had stopped way behind the car in front of it. As i looked into the car through the back window i could see a head bobbing from side to side. I thought it was a kid (about 4- 6 years old western age) jumping on the back seat. as i looked more carefully i noticed it was indeed a kid, but was on the drivers lap and seemed to be bouncing with pleasure. Next thing, the car took off like a bat out of hell and started to weave in and out of cars (without indicating and travelling way over the speed limit). i lost sight of the car as it turned very quickly (without indicating) off the main road. I cannot fathom for the life of me why anyone would not only think this was a good idea, but to actually do it!
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Adam Carolla



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I notice here in the states that gun nuts very typically refuse to wear a seat belt, even though they know it's probably a good idea, simply for the fact that they are told to do so. Which strikes me as extremely immature.

Korea, on the other hand, I feel is where the U.S. was approx. 30 years ago w/r/t transportation safety (and safety in general.) I remember as a kid riding in the back of a pickup truck on the highway and nobody thought that was a bad idea. I also remember seeing those ads on tv trying to get people to buckle up, and to get car seats for their kids. Seems like what Korea needs is just an ad campaign away. (And a few years of inundation.)
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Carolla wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Quote:
South Korea


Article 50 of South Korea’s Road Traffic Act states the following:


(1) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall fasten the seat belt thereof while driving his/her motor vehicle and require any passenger seated beside him/her to fasten that passenger's seat belt (in cases of an infant, this refers to the seat belt after an infant safety harness is mounted; hereinafter the same shall apply): Provided, That the same shall not apply to cases where it is difficult to fasten the seat belt due to any illness, etc. or due to any ground prescribed by Ordinance of the Ministry of Public Administration and Security.

(2) A driver of any motor vehicle (excluding any two-wheeled vehicle) shall remind passengers, other than passenger sitting beside the driver to fasten their seat belts, and in cases of any automobile, if an infant takes a seat other than the seat beside the driver, the driver shall fasten such infant’s seat belt.[49]






[49] Act No. 7545, amended by Act No. 10790, June 8, 2011, art. 50, ¶¶ 1 & 2.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/child-restraint-and-seatbelt-regulations/index.php

Passed into law (as we can see) in 2011.

As for not wearing seatbelts, what about school buses back home? What about public buses? Never worn a seatbelt on either of those...for the simple fact that there weren't any. (Although things may have changed since those times.)

Not that this excuses Korea for its lax regard in the slightest...only that it sounds slightly hypocritical on our part. Let's hope if one is back home that they will ALWAYS drive their child to school and never put their child on the bus. As for those millions of parents in North America who put their child on the bus every day...are people going to say that they must not care about their kids as much as expat parents in Korea do?


It would have taken literally seconds to figure this out for yourself. Seconds. First link. THE FIRST LINK!

http://www.americanschoolbuscouncil.org/school-bus-information-and-statistics/faq/why-dont-school-buses-have-seat-belts

Now granted, my google foo is pretty strong. I'm sure you were incapable of typing "no seatbelts on school bus".

Quote:
School buses are carefully designed on a different transportation and protection model than the average passenger car. The children are protected like eggs in an egg carton – compartmentalized, and surrounded with padding and structural integrity to secure the entire container. The seat backs are raised and the shell is reinforced for protection against impact.


TUM, you always cease to amaze.


Here are some reports on what the National Transportation Safety Board thinks of "compartmentalization"


http://www.ncsbs.org/testimonies/seat_belt_background.htm

Quote:
In September of 1999, just as the NHTSA study was beginning, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) issued a report on school bus crashworthiness. The study found “compartmentalization” was ineffective during six typical school bus accidents. In every example the 222 seat failed to contain the passengers. Children were injured and killed as a result of both ejection and being tossed violently within the bus itself. The Board concluded that:

Current compartmentalization is incomplete in that it does not protect school bus passengers during lateral impacts with vehicles of large mass and in rollovers, because in such accidents, passengers do not always remain completely within the seating compartment.

The Board went on to point out that passengers who were propelled from the “compartment” were the ones more likely to be injured during side impact and rollover collisions.


Quote:
NHTSA 2002 Report:
After four years of effort and at a cost to taxpayers of hundreds of thousands of dollars, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) again failed to properly identify “compromised compartmentalization” as a design defects in school buses and refused to implement needed safety improvements to protect the 25 million children who ride school buses back and forth to school every school day.


Quote:
In preparing the current April 2002, “REPORT TO CONGRESS, School Bus Safety: Crashwothiness Research,” in order to assess crash outcomes, NHTSA analyzed 31 actual crashes. Just nine (29%) were front end. In spite of the fact that 7 out of 10 of these real world accidents were not frontal, NHTSA made no attempt to evaluate the effectiveness of “compartmentalization” in protecting the young passengers in all real world crash configurations. Had NHTSA chosen to evaluate the complete range of all accident possibilities, they would certainly have concluded, as did the NTSB, that “compartmentalization” was compromised and incomplete



And as we can see this is not a new issue...these reports were made years ago. And this remains a current issue.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/ntsb-nhtsa-disagree-school-bus-seat-belts-193010876.html


Some states do now require lap belts on school buses but many do not.
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