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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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 Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: Two Pillars of Conservatism (only two)? |
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Funny...freedom and limited government are what I would consider, LIBERAL. But ,not in this day and age...
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/05/what_does_it_mean_to_be_a_conservative.html
| Quote: |
May 20, 2016
What Does It Mean to Be a Conservative?
By Matthew Dragonette
There’s no doubt that conservatives are in retreat. The combination of electoral defeats, ineffectual Congressional leadership and progressives’ rising popularity has taken its toll on conservativism. And now with the ascendancy of right-wing populism on the back of Donald Trump, conservatism has been thrown into a chaos not seen since before the rise of William F. Buckley.
Conservatives have failed to focus on their core principles and struggled to maintain a cohesive identity. In numerous states, Trump won among conservatives and moderates alike. Certainly, he appealed to conservatives concerned about immigration, political correctness, and business experience. But the fact is, Trump is not a conservative and has implied as much throughout the campaign. The fact that conservatives could not demonstrate this simple fact shows that term “conservative” has been stretched to a near-breaking point.
In the short term, some conservatives may rally around a third-party candidate. But if conservatism is to flourish, conservatives need to have a difficult conversation focused on question: What does it mean to be a conservative in American politics?
Some have already started diagnosing conservatives’ struggles, both inside and outside the confines of the Republican Party, by attempting to answer that very question. Citing a number of influential conservative intellectuals, the National Review’s Rachel Lu describes two “primary pillars” to conservatism: The recognition of a society’s vulnerability to government overreach and a “robust moral order.”
As part of this second pillar, she claims that: “Things can be objectively good or bad for us. We have obligations, not all of which are subject to our personal consent. We are capable of true excellence, but also of moral failure, for which we should rightly be held to account. These are fundamental truths that shape the conservative worldview.”
As a worldview, one can’t help but agree with this description of a “moral order.” A belief in morality and “right from wrong” is shared by many of us. We try to live our lives in line with this morality, and some of us encourage others to do the same.
But does the “moral order” need to be established and preserved by the government? Certainly, the government has established laws prohibiting murder, theft, and discrimination. But these are actions that fundamentally violate the individual liberties of another person. They allow for a peaceful society that protects the rights of safety, property, and contract.
There is some baseline “moral order” the government has to preserve, something roughly in line with John Stuart Mill’s “harm principle.” There are certainly exceptions to this guideline. But for the most part, preserving a “moral order” is the task of conservatives in society, not in government. Government’s involvement can infringe on individuals’ rights to make their own choices. And coming to a consensus about a “moral order” is more difficult than one might think. If drinking too large a soda is considered gluttonous, should we ban it? (Nice try, Bloomberg.) What about alcohol?
The point here is that American conservatives should not be legislating morality, whenever possible. Otherwise, we become the government overreach we claim to oppose. When government seeks to regulate individual behavior on “social” issues, it’s still “big government.”
For American political conservatives, there ought to be two pillars: Individual rights and limited, constitutional government. Americans that show a proper commitment to these two priorities are politically conservative.
Individual rights are fundamental to any free society. A free exchange of ideas helps spur innovation, learning and personal growth. Choice is essential to our distinct individuality. The fewer choices we get to make, the more predetermined life becomes. Conservatives need to be about empowering individuals, not controlling them. This starts with defending constitutional rights from government encroachment, both those enumerated and otherwise.
Protecting individual rights also protects the free markets. Free-market capitalism has been the catalyst for the United States’ position as an economic (and political) superpower. Allowing the forces of supply and demand to work enables mostly efficient outcomes and gives individuals the choice of employment opportunities, purchases and investments.
Individual rights might fly in opposition to some notion of a “moral order.” That’s okay. While causing actual harm to another directly (abuse) or more indirectly (dumping chemicals in a river) is not one’s “right,” other choices might be “unethical” or violate one’s religious tenets. But individuals should have the right to grow on their own, establish their own values and make their own decisions. If you disagree with someone’s choices, you can make your opposition known in the free market of society by exercising your own individual rights. But the government should not be the tool of moral enforcement.
Limited, constitutional government is a must at all levels of government. Governments should not be making personal decisions for individuals, nor violating their constitutional rights. If the Constitution allows gun ownership, don’t make it nearly impossible to own a gun. If two individuals want to marry, the government (and its citizens) should not care about the individuals’ genders. Don’t like alcohol consumption or gambling? Start a private campaign, not a government regulation. Excessive regulation or “cronyism” can devastate the economy and makes an incredibly uneven “playing field,” at home and abroad.
Government ought to be taking care of its responsibilities at the appropriate level. Constitutionally, the federal government has a number of enumerated responsibilities, aided by a “necessary and proper” clause. With interstate commerce and foreign policy alone, the federal government should have its hands full. For other issues, like education, state and local governments ought to be taking the lead, allowing problems to be solved closest to the people affected. (See the Tenth Amendment.) In its required duties, the government ought to be enforcing the law consistently – no selective or discriminatory enforcement of various laws. Conservatives need to be effective executives and legislators on the proper issues before them.
Obviously these two points have more nuances and complications. There exists room for disagreement as to the exact role of government and the impact of individuals’ actions. But conservatives must focus on limiting government and maximizing freedom in the political arena.
These two pillars don’t mean conservatives shouldn’t strive to participate in a societal moral order. Nor does it absolve us from choosing morally upstanding candidates to run for public office. But focusing on these two facets of conservatism clarifies the conservative message. We need to be the movement of smaller government, free markets and individual liberty.
This is a more consistent, clearer message for the difficult process on “converting” Americans to the conservative cause which, judging by millennials’ beliefs and conservatives’ electoral struggles, has become extraordinarily important. It allows people of conflicting moral beliefs to gather under the conservative political banner, and lets individuals make their own decisions amidst the “free market of ideas.” It lets conservative politicians focus on exercising their constitutional duties, balancing a federal budget and maybe even solving a looming entitlements crisis.
Freedom and limited government. What’s more than conservative than that?
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: |
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The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
When someone approaches a topic dealing with politics or culture under a belief that one is no more intrinsically _________ than any other, that person's understanding of that topic will be extremely limited. This is cultural relativism as taught to you by the left, Leon. Say what you want about me, but your approach is bogus, and you still don't know what you're talking about. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) |
I agree and based on some past courses and readings, I can say you are right.
In terms of social conservatism, I feel it is in tune with some past ideas of liberalism, but still has social morality (importance of the family, a strong individual, self reliance, etc).
The terms "liberal" and "conservative" are so rarely, if ever, defined by the puppets we see. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
When someone approaches a topic dealing with politics or culture under a belief that one is no more intrinsically _________ than any other, that person's understanding of that topic will be extremely limited. This is cultural relativism as taught to you by the left, Leon. Say what you want about me, but your approach is bogus, and you still don't know what you're talking about. |
Pick up a dictionary and llok the word conservative up. Its not a modern word or phenomenon. It means conserving the past/resisting change. Hence a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European by the very definition of the word. Conservative exisited before the idea of cultural relativism, and the idea if changin a society rapidly in the way you seem to prefer is by definition not conservative. Your terms are muddled, and I think you are simply as ignorant as you think I am. |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
When someone approaches a topic dealing with politics or culture under a belief that one is no more intrinsically _________ than any other, that person's understanding of that topic will be extremely limited. This is cultural relativism as taught to you by the left, Leon. Say what you want about me, but your approach is bogus, and you still don't know what you're talking about. |
Pick up a dictionary and llok the word conservative up. Its not a modern word or phenomenon. It means conserving the past/resisting change. Hence a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European by the very definition of the word. Conservative exisited before the idea of cultural relativism, and the idea if changin a society rapidly in the way you seem to prefer is by definition not conservative. Your terms are muddled, and I think you are simply as ignorant as you think I am. |
You're simply wrong. Chinese conservatism would not be the same as European conservationism, obviously, because they are different cultures, with different concepts of conservation, who are going to have different opinions and definitions of that word, not to mention different phenomena to conserve.
Read this line back to yourself: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European.”
That's even stupider than your comparison of Saudi Arabia and Europe. You don't know what you're talking about. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
When someone approaches a topic dealing with politics or culture under a belief that one is no more intrinsically _________ than any other, that person's understanding of that topic will be extremely limited. This is cultural relativism as taught to you by the left, Leon. Say what you want about me, but your approach is bogus, and you still don't know what you're talking about. |
Pick up a dictionary and llok the word conservative up. Its not a modern word or phenomenon. It means conserving the past/resisting change. Hence a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European by the very definition of the word. Conservative exisited before the idea of cultural relativism, and the idea if changin a society rapidly in the way you seem to prefer is by definition not conservative. Your terms are muddled, and I think you are simply as ignorant as you think I am. |
You're simply wrong. Chinese conservatism would not be the same as European conservationism, obviously, because they are different cultures, with different concepts of conservation, who are going to have different opinions and definitions of that word, not to mention different phenomena to conserve.
Read this line back to yourself: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European.”
That's even stupider than your comparison of Saudi Arabia and Europe. You don't know what you're talking about. |
Again, the problem of narrow education. Conservatism is a value neutral term. Of course a conservative chinese person will have different beliefs than a conservative european because they are each conserving different values, how much more obvious and simple can I make it for you? You basically just agreed with me, then called me stupid while agreeing with me. |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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|
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
When someone approaches a topic dealing with politics or culture under a belief that one is no more intrinsically _________ than any other, that person's understanding of that topic will be extremely limited. This is cultural relativism as taught to you by the left, Leon. Say what you want about me, but your approach is bogus, and you still don't know what you're talking about. |
Pick up a dictionary and llok the word conservative up. Its not a modern word or phenomenon. It means conserving the past/resisting change. Hence a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European by the very definition of the word. Conservative exisited before the idea of cultural relativism, and the idea if changin a society rapidly in the way you seem to prefer is by definition not conservative. Your terms are muddled, and I think you are simply as ignorant as you think I am. |
You're simply wrong. Chinese conservatism would not be the same as European conservationism, obviously, because they are different cultures, with different concepts of conservation, who are going to have different opinions and definitions of that word, not to mention different phenomena to conserve.
Read this line back to yourself: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European.”
That's even stupider than your comparison of Saudi Arabia and Europe. You don't know what you're talking about. |
Again, the problem of narrow education. Conservatism is a value neutral term. Of course a conservative chinese person will have different beliefs than a conservative european because they are each conserving different values, how much more obvious and simple can I make it for you? You basically just agreed with me, then called me stupid while agreeing with me. |
Are you kidding me?
You said: “Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation.”
So, if we assume this statement is true (which it, of course, is not), in different societies, the result of conservativism will be the same. I said that was false, and that the result wouldn't be the same … because they are different societies with different notions of conservativism.
You said: “white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture”
But since they are different cultures conserving different beliefs and values, they are intrinsically different. That's what I said, not you.
You said: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European”
But since they are intrinsically different, they will not be as conservative as the other. That's what I said, not you.
Has my presence here caused Kuros and Leon to turn into incoherent alcoholics? Put some thought into what you say, my god. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
When someone approaches a topic dealing with politics or culture under a belief that one is no more intrinsically _________ than any other, that person's understanding of that topic will be extremely limited. This is cultural relativism as taught to you by the left, Leon. Say what you want about me, but your approach is bogus, and you still don't know what you're talking about. |
Pick up a dictionary and llok the word conservative up. Its not a modern word or phenomenon. It means conserving the past/resisting change. Hence a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European by the very definition of the word. Conservative exisited before the idea of cultural relativism, and the idea if changin a society rapidly in the way you seem to prefer is by definition not conservative. Your terms are muddled, and I think you are simply as ignorant as you think I am. |
You're simply wrong. Chinese conservatism would not be the same as European conservationism, obviously, because they are different cultures, with different concepts of conservation, who are going to have different opinions and definitions of that word, not to mention different phenomena to conserve.
Read this line back to yourself: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European.”
That's even stupider than your comparison of Saudi Arabia and Europe. You don't know what you're talking about. |
Again, the problem of narrow education. Conservatism is a value neutral term. Of course a conservative chinese person will have different beliefs than a conservative european because they are each conserving different values, how much more obvious and simple can I make it for you? You basically just agreed with me, then called me stupid while agreeing with me. |
Are you kidding me?
You said: “Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation.”
So, if we assume this statement is true (which it, of course, is not), in different societies, the result of conservativism will be the same. I said that was false, and that the result wouldn't be the same … because they are different societies with different notions of conservativism.
You said: “white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture”
But since they are different cultures conserving different beliefs and values, they are intrinsically different. That's what I said, not you.
You said: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European”
But since they are intrinsically different, they will not be as conservative as the other. That's what I said, not you.
Has my presence here caused Kuros and Leon to turn into incoherent alcoholics? Put some thought into what you say, my god. |
Did I ever say that the results would be the same? Stagnation is a broad concept, as in one culture's stagnation will not look the same as anothers. Because something goes over your head does not make it intrinsically incoherent. |
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Swartz
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
| Swartz wrote: |
The modern conservative movement was set up as controlled opposition designed to fail by dual-citizen traitors (neocohens) like Bill Kristol. It was never concerned with conserving European values, race, identity, culture (or anything important for that matter), it was organized around abstract and now ultimately meaningless principles like those highlighted in the luegenpresse/fake-right media piece above. This is how Jewish subversion works, they try to control both sides to make it easier to corrupt their host's institutions, and I've highlighted on previous occasions how the American Thinker is yet another fraudulent and deceptive Jewish publication. With the Party turning toward Trump and nationalism (to some degree, at least), the true colors of these criminals are finally showing. Bill Kristol, talking about his new Renegade Party, actually quoted the Communist Manifesto the other day.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2016/05/nevertrump-leader-bill-kristol-quotes-communist-manifesto-on-twitter/
It's unbelievable, even to those of us who have for some time now been documenting and trying to inform others of these people's lies and their crooked nature. They aren't like you, they aren't your friends, they want to exterminate you and destroy the West. |
Why is Swarts the only other one that is able to comment on this? I am genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of Leon on the matter (seriously). I'm sure PMS, SR, and Catman can croon and howl, wasting the oxygen of those around them, but, I see many folks throwing out "right wing" and "conservatism" like the Democrats using the "War on Women" mantra. |
Because its boring and in america conservativism is a meaningless word. Much of what people call conservativism is actually economic liberalism (think free market, free trade, deregulation, etc.) This is, as far as I can tell, the Ayn Rand/Paul Ryan wing. Then you have the social "conservatives" that are more theocratic than conservative, and then you have the thrice married hucksters such as Newt/Donald who profit from the attention/money that comes by playing whatever is called conservative at the time, then you have the warmongers who call themselves conservative. . Conservative has basically become a big game of what would Reagan do.
Real, little c, conservativism is making change slowly and respecting institutions and history, culture, precedent, etc. think Edmund Burke beong horrified by the French Revolution. Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation. |
Leon doesn't know what he's talking about. He's repeating pseudo-intellectual liberal agitprop which he finishes off with the absurd notion that a backwards desert culture, politically or otherwise, would be in any way comparable to a White culture. Just as Jews have subverted the conservative movement as highlighted above, so did they subvert academia to keep people like Leon misinformed. |
A pseudo-intellectual thinks to insult me by calling me a pseudo-intellectual while using stilted intellectual aping language. Made the more funny because he seemingly confuses right wing politics with conservatism. Also notice, I never once mentioned white culture, becuase white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture, yet he accuses me of denigrating it. The lack of self awareness is what makes this fun. |
When someone approaches a topic dealing with politics or culture under a belief that one is no more intrinsically _________ than any other, that person's understanding of that topic will be extremely limited. This is cultural relativism as taught to you by the left, Leon. Say what you want about me, but your approach is bogus, and you still don't know what you're talking about. |
Pick up a dictionary and llok the word conservative up. Its not a modern word or phenomenon. It means conserving the past/resisting change. Hence a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European by the very definition of the word. Conservative exisited before the idea of cultural relativism, and the idea if changin a society rapidly in the way you seem to prefer is by definition not conservative. Your terms are muddled, and I think you are simply as ignorant as you think I am. |
You're simply wrong. Chinese conservatism would not be the same as European conservationism, obviously, because they are different cultures, with different concepts of conservation, who are going to have different opinions and definitions of that word, not to mention different phenomena to conserve.
Read this line back to yourself: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European.”
That's even stupider than your comparison of Saudi Arabia and Europe. You don't know what you're talking about. |
Again, the problem of narrow education. Conservatism is a value neutral term. Of course a conservative chinese person will have different beliefs than a conservative european because they are each conserving different values, how much more obvious and simple can I make it for you? You basically just agreed with me, then called me stupid while agreeing with me. |
Are you kidding me?
You said: “Too much conservatism leads to stagnation (The Saudis are deeply conservative as far as I can tell), not enough leds to disaster and can lead to alienation.”
So, if we assume this statement is true (which it, of course, is not), in different societies, the result of conservativism will be the same. I said that was false, and that the result wouldn't be the same … because they are different societies with different notions of conservativism.
You said: “white culture is not any more intrinsicly conservative than chinese or arab or whatever culture”
But since they are different cultures conserving different beliefs and values, they are intrinsically different. That's what I said, not you.
You said: “a traditionalist Chinese person is as conservative as a traditionalist European”
But since they are intrinsically different, they will not be as conservative as the other. That's what I said, not you.
Has my presence here caused Kuros and Leon to turn into incoherent alcoholics? Put some thought into what you say, my god. |
Did I ever say that the results would be the same? Stagnation is a broad concept, as in one culture's stagnation will not look the same as anothers. Because something goes over your head does not make it intrinsically incoherent. |
And since that particular statement isn't even true, I guess we don't need to worry about what those deeply implied differences you failed to mention might look like. Your statements were incoherent and false, not to mention full of punctuation errors and misspellings, Leon. When I told you why you were wrong, you attempted to change what you said to something more in line with what I said, then you tried to tell me that what I said was what you said. Now you're trying to get out of it by saying it all just went over my head?
Okay, friend. I'll be nice, because this one was pretty bad.
But I will need to restate the first line of my first response so the outcome here is as clear as possible for the unofficial record: “Leon doesn't know what he's talking about.” |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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OK, shall we limit this to AMERICAN politics?
I think it is interesting, how each term "liberal" and "conservative", as I pointed out, are so hardly defined, that a representative of one can easily demonize the other.
Does modern day conservatism represent more of the Classic Liberal traits? IF so, when the word is used, is it to invoke maintaining the narratives of Declaration of Independence with the Constitution is supposed to enforce/promote? So...I see it as to conserve liberty.
If liberals, are in fact "liberal", what are they trying to liberate themselves from? The Constitution? It is like the word "progressive"...making progress, but from and to where, exactly? That is always undefined.
It is times like this that I enjoy reading biographies on past U.S. presidents, as they give more insight into what those terms mean now, versus as to what they meant then....or, what the represent. |
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