|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
10YearsExp
Joined: 02 May 2017
Location: The Big Apple
|
 Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: Thinking of returning after 6+ years--how has it changed? |
 |
|
Hi all; I taught ESL in SK from 2007 until 2011 and then left for Istanbul/Malaysia etc. In 2015 I returned to my native NYC where Ive been teaching ESL ever since.
Tell me people, how has South Korea changed over the past 7 years in terms of the volume of available jobs? Ive just recently joined the forum and I see many are saying that the # of jobs in general has decreased.
I taught at hagwons for the entire 4 years (2 years in Gwangyang and 2 years in Gumi). My wife and I really miss it (not so much the hagwons but SK in general).
After those 4 years in hagwons, I taught at a TOEFL Center for 1 year in Istanbul and then 2 years at a university in Kuala Lumpur; then a year back in Ankara (not sure why now, in retrospect) and now have been 2 years in NYC teaching ESL at a private adult language school.
I am now 53, energetic, but not wanting a hagwon job again. I do not have a TEFL or CELTA or any teaching cert at all, just a BA in English and an unrelated Masters.
Just introducing myself to the forum really and wondering what advice you'd give me for South Korea at my age and after so many years I've been gone from there.
Thanks everyone, and PEACE!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Compared to the heyday years around 2006-2009 the number of jobs and E2s are down by about 30% but that is still more than double what it was in 2002 before the world cup.
The reasons are multiple: poor economic performance, more qualified Korean teachers, higher expected standards, and the realization that just throwing "native speakers" into a school was not a good investment in teaching English as a foreign language.
Job prospects: far fewer for an older, unqualified (by credential) teacher despite your experience.
For PS jobs you NEED the TEFL/TESOL cert to get past the initial screening (unless you get hired locally by the school directly).
For most uni jobs you need the (preferably related) MA plus 2 years post MA work in the tertiary sector. Most of these are found "in country" rather than from your living room in NYC.
Just about the only places that you will get into without adding a TEFL cert (minimum of 20 hours F-F) is a hagwon.
Lots of positions in the tertiary sector in China though.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
10YearsExp
Joined: 02 May 2017
Location: The Big Apple
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
Compared to the heyday years around 2006-2009 the number of jobs and E2s are down by about 30% but that is still more than double what it was in 2002 before the world cup.
The reasons are multiple: poor economic performance, more qualified Korean teachers, higher expected standards, and the realization that just throwing "native speakers" into a school was not a good investment in teaching English as a foreign language.
Job prospects: far fewer for an older, unqualified (by credential) teacher despite your experience.
For PS jobs you NEED the TEFL/TESOL cert to get past the initial screening (unless you get hired locally by the school directly).
For most uni jobs you need the (preferably related) MA plus 2 years post MA work in the tertiary sector. Most of these are found "in country" rather than from your living room in NYC.
Just about the only places that you will get into without adding a TEFL cert (minimum of 20 hours F-F) is a hagwon.
Lots of positions in the tertiary sector in China though.
. |
1st of all sir, I thank you kindly for all of that great info. I had indeed imagined that hagwons would be my only option without any cert. China has sometimes gotten my attention, esp. somewhere far out in the countryside --- NYC can really get on your nerves (all my life here apart from the 8 years abroad) and we'd prefer something more laid back.
Another thing stopping me (which I know is childish --- wow imagine that, at 53) is that I am terrified (though I have forced myself several times) of getting blood drawn/needles stuck into me, and am sort of looking for countries where I would not have to endure that thing again. What irks me --- though I do not arrogantly expect other countries to do what conveniences me --- is that I am in good possession of every single one of my blood tests, but obviously NONE are 6 months current bwahahaha....
Phobias, ahhh yes, also fear of flying, which I have gritted my teeth through...... longest flight EVER was NYC to Seoul....... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sounds like you also have a phobia about TEFL qualifications. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
|
| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 10YearsExp wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Compared to the heyday years around 2006-2009 the number of jobs and E2s are down by about 30% but that is still more than double what it was in 2002 before the world cup.
The reasons are multiple: poor economic performance, more qualified Korean teachers, higher expected standards, and the realization that just throwing "native speakers" into a school was not a good investment in teaching English as a foreign language.
Job prospects: far fewer for an older, unqualified (by credential) teacher despite your experience.
For PS jobs you NEED the TEFL/TESOL cert to get past the initial screening (unless you get hired locally by the school directly).
For most uni jobs you need the (preferably related) MA plus 2 years post MA work in the tertiary sector. Most of these are found "in country" rather than from your living room in NYC.
Just about the only places that you will get into without adding a TEFL cert (minimum of 20 hours F-F) is a hagwon.
Lots of positions in the tertiary sector in China though.
. |
1st of all sir, I thank you kindly for all of that great info. I had indeed imagined that hagwons would be my only option without any cert. China has sometimes gotten my attention, esp. somewhere far out in the countryside --- NYC can really get on your nerves (all my life here apart from the 8 years abroad) and we'd prefer something more laid back.
Another thing stopping me (which I know is childish --- wow imagine that, at 53) is that I am terrified (though I have forced myself several times) of getting blood drawn/needles stuck into me, and am sort of looking for countries where I would not have to endure that thing again. What irks me --- though I do not arrogantly expect other countries to do what conveniences me --- is that I am in good possession of every single one of my blood tests, but obviously NONE are 6 months current bwahahaha....
Phobias, ahhh yes, also fear of flying, which I have gritted my teeth through...... longest flight EVER was NYC to Seoul....... |
I'll keep it short. Korea now has less jobs and you'll be earning the same as what you did in 2007 probably for more hours than you were working. Hagwons will be reluctant to hire you @ 53.
Also regarding China... schools even in the smaller cities tend to avoiding hiring people 50+, especially those over 55. You're around the cut-off age so you'd need to get in there quick. Plus China has blood tests, you'll need to do two. One in your own country and one in China. That is absolutely non-negotiable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chia Pet
Joined: 23 Jun 2013
|
| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 10YearsExp wrote: |
| China has sometimes gotten my attention, esp. somewhere far out in the countryside --- NYC can really get on your nerves (all my life here apart from the 8 years abroad) and we'd prefer something more laid back. |
I haven't lived in New York, but when I've visited it has seemed different from anyplace I've ever been. It seems exciting but quite "in your face." If you're tired of it, maybe you could just try living in a different city. Even Philadelphia will seem like a different world. If that's not enough of a change, you could try Alabama.
If you go abroad for a few more years, it may be harder to find good work in the U.S. when you want to return at age 57 or whatever. What if your job history is a mess due to ending up at bad hagwons? If you really want to live abroad, maybe you could purchase some needles and slowly work your way up to giving yourself shots. (Sorry if that advice is insensitive, as I haven't experienced anything like your phobias.) If you're actually just tired of New York, I imagine 99% of other areas in the U.S. would be more laid back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
10YearsExp
Joined: 02 May 2017
Location: The Big Apple
|
| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Sounds like you also have a phobia about TEFL qualifications. |
no, Pete, it aint a phobia, its that I think they are nearly useless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
10YearsExp
Joined: 02 May 2017
Location: The Big Apple
|
| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chia Pet wrote: |
| 10YearsExp wrote: |
| China has sometimes gotten my attention, esp. somewhere far out in the countryside --- NYC can really get on your nerves (all my life here apart from the 8 years abroad) and we'd prefer something more laid back. |
I haven't lived in New York, but when I've visited it has seemed different from anyplace I've ever been. It seems exciting but quite "in your face." If you're tired of it, maybe you could just try living in a different city. Even Philadelphia will seem like a different world. If that's not enough of a change, you could try Alabama.
If you go abroad for a few more years, it may be harder to find good work in the U.S. when you want to return at age 57 or whatever. What if your job history is a mess due to ending up at bad hagwons? If you really want to live abroad, maybe you could purchase some needles and slowly work your way up to giving yourself shots. (Sorry if that advice is insensitive, as I haven't experienced anything like your phobias.) If you're actually just tired of New York, I imagine 99% of other areas in the U.S. would be more laid back. |
those are great points. I like the needles idea, and also Alabama. I was at 2 great hagwons, btw, i lucked out, great bosses both times, paid on time, etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 10YearsExp wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Sounds like you also have a phobia about TEFL qualifications. |
no, Pete, it aint a phobia, its that I think they are nearly useless. |
If you've never got any, how would you know?
Anyway the good news is, that's pretty much what they think at your average Korean hagwan too, so I guess you'll fit in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
10YearsExp
Joined: 02 May 2017
Location: The Big Apple
|
| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| 10YearsExp wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Sounds like you also have a phobia about TEFL qualifications. |
no, Pete, it aint a phobia, its that I think they are nearly useless. |
If you've never got any, how would you know?
Anyway the good news is, that's pretty much what they think at your average Korean hagwan too, so I guess you'll fit in. |
So your argument is nobody can know anything unless they themselves personally do it? That is weak, not to mention silly. You are quite the agitator here in this thread, is that your usual role here on the forum then? When I said I have a phobia to needles, your sarcastic and trouble-making remark that I must have a phobia to certification showed me your mean-spirited character.
OK, I'll entertain you, I guess you're just looking for a quarrel, I can smell you a mile away. I don't need to get one to know, I feel having spoken to maybe 25 teachers over the past 10 years who DID get certified and been told by 90% of them that the certification does little-to-nothing and is largely just based on common sense, is quite enough confirmation for what I had already thought on my own after researching those programs for years.
Between you and me bro, I really don't care about your personal judgements of me at all, as the fact you have instantly in your very first interaction with me behaved so abrasively utterly disqualifies you from being viewed as a dignified, respectful individual.
Good show! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ps3_machine
Joined: 28 Aug 2016
|
| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have just come back to korea after 10 years in absense. I knew i am employable. So are you. You will be picked up by someone who wants an experienced capaigner. The difference is always with immigration giving both you and the employer a headache by changing processes and hearing stupid things such as demanding background checks while living in korea.
I am considering to get a tefl only for trying to break into the epik or gepik program.
I will keep my eyes open for uni opportunities but i may find it difficult to break in as i normally have the intention to return to my home country to manage my domestic situation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| So your argument is nobody can know anything unless they themselves personally do it? That is weak, not to mention silly. |
I think if we're specifically talking about a training program that either will or won't make you personally, not anyone else, a better teacher it's a pretty strong argument actually.
| Quote: |
| OK, I'll entertain you, I guess you're just looking for a quarrel, I can smell you a mile away. I don't need to get one to know, I feel having spoken to maybe 25 teachers over the past 10 years who DID get certified and been told by 90% of them that the certification does little-to-nothing and is largely just based on common sense, is quite enough confirmation for what I had already thought on my own after researching those programs for years. |
So you, 90% of your mates and a few hagwan owners in China and Korea are right and the rest of the TEFL world is wrong? Fine, enjoy doing entry level jobs for the rest of your TEFL 'career'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
|
| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So your argument is nobody can know anything unless they themselves personally do it? That is weak, not to mention silly. |
I think if we're specifically talking about a training program that either will or won't make you personally, not anyone else, a better teacher it's a pretty strong argument actually.
| Quote: |
| OK, I'll entertain you, I guess you're just looking for a quarrel, I can smell you a mile away. I don't need to get one to know, I feel having spoken to maybe 25 teachers over the past 10 years who DID get certified and been told by 90% of them that the certification does little-to-nothing and is largely just based on common sense, is quite enough confirmation for what I had already thought on my own after researching those programs for years. |
So you, 90% of your mates and a few hagwan owners in China and Korea are right and the rest of the TEFL world is wrong? Fine, enjoy doing entry level jobs for the rest of your TEFL 'career'. |
I agree with edward. It helps to get the extra qualifications.
Many people don't know how much they don't know.
Too, I don't believe that 90% of the 25 teachers said the certification does little-to-nothing to help. If it isn't helping, then it isn't being used.
Without a doubt, having teacher certification in the subjects I teach and attaining other credentials have been useful for my career. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
10YearsExp
Joined: 02 May 2017
Location: The Big Apple
|
| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now thats a respectful, sophisticated reply I can respect. Nothing rude about your reply there, and someone disagreeing/agreeing with someone else is quite normal. I can even see how you'd think I wasnt being honest about 90% of the teachers I gathered info from over the past 10 years saying "mehhhhh, its OK i guess, but I was already employing most if not all of those techniques, etc., BEFORE I did the CELTA"..... EXCEPT THAT THEY DID TELL ME THAT. Sadly, edward made it insulting and a veiled personal insult, while your reply should serve as an embellishment to edward's teacher certification (which I assume he has).
True what you said about people thinking they know, etc. We all do still have opinions though, and mine is simply that those programs are only partially at best going to make someone a better teacher, and at worst not going to have much of an effect at all.
However, we must not allow this thread to be derailed, as it nearly was by edward, into a Teacher Certification quarrel, or, worse yet, as edward so desperately wants, a bickering match which slowly but surely increases in snideness (just look at his tone: "90% of your 'mates' " - never said they were my mates, but he wants to spin it).
So ttompatz seemed along with Chiapet and JohnML and PS-3 and yourself, to have the nicest replies and I hope to see that niceness continue! Its what makes this world turn and spreads the love and kindness!
So Korea has about 30% LESS jobs than 7 years ago...... next question for you guys/gals: I taught at a uni in Malaysia for 2 and a half years (English Foundation) to pre-Med and Engineering students (again, no teacher certification and no problem for that uni) --- does SK have anything along THOSE lines, do you know? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Now thats a respectful, sophisticated reply I can respect. Nothing rude about your reply there, and someone disagreeing/agreeing with someone else is quite normal |
| Quote: |
| Too, I don't believe that 90% of the 25 teachers said the certification does little-to-nothing to help. |
I made a slightly snidey comment about phobias while he just outright
accused you of lying. And that's respectful and sophisticated? Still it's interesting to see what things wind people up more than others.
| Quote: |
| does SK have anything along THOSE lines, do you know? |
Some very crappy Korean universities out in the sticks might take you on from outside the country with your unrelated Masters. I'm curious though about how you'd feel paying to go to university and getting lessons from someone with no related qualifications in that field. If you'd be fine about it I guess that's fair enough.
And sorry, I usually ignore personal insults but I won't be lectured to about spreading love and kindness
| Quote: |
| I hope to see that niceness continue! Its what makes this world turn and spreads the love and kindness! |
After you accused me of all this.
| Quote: |
silly, agitator, sarcastic, trouble-making, abrasive, insulting
snideness, rude. |
And what did I do? Accuse you of having mates you don't have?
Finally, for an older guy you seem to have very little self awareness. You're basically looking for work at a Korean university and many people on here, myself included serve on hiring committees occasionally. Yet you come across as arrogant - thinking you, unlike others, don't have to bother with qualifications and very sensitive to criticism (I'm guessing that could be one reason why you don't want to do any training) Hardly the kind of guy anyone would want to hire. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
