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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005 Location: Boo-sahn
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Looks like canada set us ALL straight!
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/wrtps/index-eng.html?lang=eng&lettr=indx_catlog_v&page=9SC4lWsaAlSw.html
Aaaaaarrrgh! Koreans right AGAIN! Actually we're ALL right! Har har...
"Exception
An exception occurs when there is a list of nouns as subject. Logically, a list of two or more items would be plural and would therefore require a plural verb:
There are a punch bowl, finger foods and a cake on the table.
But it sounds odd to have are next to the singular noun phrase a punch bowl. The verb is would sound better:
There is a punch bowl, finger foods and a cake on the table.
So which of these sentences is correct? The answer is both. The first one follows the standard rule. But the second is also accepted, and many writers would prefer it because it sounds more natural. Therefore, when the subject after there is or there are is a list of items, you can make your verb agree with the first noun in the list.
Note: Although there is or there are constructions are useful in some situations, some writers prefer to reword the sentence. If you decide to reword and put the list before the verb, you must make the verb agree with the plural list (and not just the closest item):
A punch bowl, finger foods and a cake are on the table."
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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denverdeath wrote: |
Looks like canada set us ALL straight!
http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/wrtps/index-eng.html?lang=eng&lettr=indx_catlog_v&page=9SC4lWsaAlSw.html
Aaaaaarrrgh! Koreans right AGAIN! Actually we're ALL right! Har har...
"Exception
An exception occurs when there is a list of nouns as subject. Logically, a list of two or more items would be plural and would therefore require a plural verb:
There are a punch bowl, finger foods and a cake on the table.
But it sounds odd to have are next to the singular noun phrase a punch bowl. The verb is would sound better:
There is a punch bowl, finger foods and a cake on the table.
So which of these sentences is correct? The answer is both. The first one follows the standard rule. But the second is also accepted, and many writers would prefer it because it sounds more natural. Therefore, when the subject after there is or there are is a list of items, you can make your verb agree with the first noun in the list.
Note: Although there is or there are constructions are useful in some situations, some writers prefer to reword the sentence. If you decide to reword and put the list before the verb, you must make the verb agree with the plural list (and not just the closest item):
A punch bowl, finger foods and a cake are on the table."
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Yea, that's what I've found too. Some grammar books state that using 'is' is the correct grammar choice while other grammar books say that 'are' is the correct usage.
They basically called out all of the foreigners and said that we were all teaching the students wrong. I showed them various respectable grammar books that stated the case for and against them, but they wouldn't accept that there could be two right answers.
From what I've found, North America uses 'is' for nouns in a series and other countries use 'are' for nouns in a series. Most hagwons teach American English, so I don't understand the problem. It's like using an Oxford comma or not using one. Both cases are correct. |
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Chaucer
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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It's prescriptive, the grammar mentioned that is. |
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SuperfuzzBigmuff
Joined: 12 Mar 2017
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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If a Korean English teacher is giving you grief about grammar, just get them to try and produce some sentences themselves. They are good at finding faults in other people’s writing, but they can’t even write a short paragraph without errors. One of my co-teachers, who keeps reminding me that she has a Masters in English, has the written skills of a primary school student. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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"Are" is the correct usage for a list of items like that. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:54 am Post subject: |
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young_clinton wrote: |
"Are" is the correct usage for a list of items like that. |
North American textbooks state that 'is' is used if the first noun in the series is singular though. Different textbooks state that 'are' is correct and another book states that 'is' is informal and that 'are' is formal. My main gripe about this situation is the Korean teachers and management are saying that NETs are just flat wrong. So, I needed to find an actual link to a grammar book that stated my position. I found plenty for and against the usage of 'is.' If they want to follow an English book that says 'are' is appropriate, then that's fine. However, they don't need to say to us that we are just wrong. |
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