Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Canucksaram]

We all know that most (if not all) recruiters wash their hands of things after collecting their fee.

But let's say that you have incredible luck and your recruiter actually wants to help you if your job starts to go bad and you can't resolve matters on your own. Other than offering moral support and phone numbers for the local immigration office or the Korean Ministry of Labor, I wonder:

1. What kinds of help should we realistically expect recruiters to provide?

2. What can recruiters do to help? Do they have any real power, or is sympathy all we can expect?

[PatrickSiheung]

If they're out of the country, they can't do anything but provide you with contacts or advice. One recruiter I've dealt with had some lawyer friends in Seoul.

If you deal with a recruiter that lives in Korea that's a bit of a bonus. They can always go to a hagwon and speak with the director personally about any problems. They may also be able to physically take you to places you need to go, ie: immigration, the Ministry of Labor etc...

They really have no authority though. Recruiters do not have special licences that give them super powers. They're just like us. Some may know a bit more about the ins and outs of Korea, and some may even have some useful contacts on "the inside." But other than that, they're pretty powerless to help us with our problems.

[ActionInternational]

Canucksaram, perhaps it's more a case of how much the recruiters' hands are tied rather than how much they care. Sure there exists the few greedy and heartless recruiter bent on collecting commission, throws any teacher into any school, and just doesn't care. But I think the rest of the recruiters can't do anything about it, and simply act as agents between the teacher and the school (more for the school). I would guess that recruiters have no legal power or voice to do anything about issues or problems that arises between schools and teachers. Perhaps that's why the best they can do for the teacher is give moral support and provide contact numbers for the appropriate authorities.

Also, are recruiters forced to work with the korean system? The recruiter works for the schools, as it's the schools that pay the fee, not the teacher. Recruiters may not want to rub schools in the wrong way. For example, if recruiter A1 becomes vocal, takes action, blacklists, and/or disputes with the bad school, can this school in return blacklist recruiter A1 to other schools as well? You know, revenge on recruiter A1 so that the other schools don't want to deal with that recruiter. Also, if recruiter A1 informs other recruiters about the bad school (blacklisting), would the other recruiters use that against recruiter A1? Recruiting can become very competitive in korea.

However, in saying that, I'm not defending any recruiter's wrongdoing. I think all recruiters must carry a moral and ethical responsibility in researching to the best of their knowledge that the school is a good one. If they knew the school to be unethical and/or blacklisted, and yet still place the teacher in that school for the sake of collecting the fee, then that of course is wrong. (Vice versa in screening the teacher too.) As problems arise, recruiters could at least help the teacher by contacting the appropriate authorities on the teacher's behalf.

Are local immigration office or the Korean Ministry of Labor the only places to go for help and support? Are there any groups or organisations that have the power to protect the rights of a foreign teacher, as well as give recruiters more power to take action? Perhaps someone familiar with the korean legal system can help.

[Derrek]

I don't think they could do much if they wanted to.

And i'd guess that most wouldn't bother.

[Saxiif]

[Canucksaram]

Thanks for the replies.

I just read ActionInternational's earlier thread that touches on the same sujbect (http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=25567) and found it useful.

To expand on ActionInternational's request for specifics about help from recruiters/schools, let's play "What if?".

What if you could magically wish into existence three services from a recruter to be provided before coming over to work, and three more services to be provided after arriving and beginning your job? What would they be?

[Dalton]

Recruiters can't do crap about anything. If the school they sent you to is owned by the recruiters friend then maybe they can have an influence. MAYBE. And why should a recruiter do anything? They got their money from the school not you. If they want more money from the school then they'll keep their mouths shut. The glut of recruiters here is greater than the glut of jobs. Every teacher with a friend back home is a recruiter these days it seems.

How does a recruiter get a waygook saram to sign with them? That's the question. The answer? Promises, promises, promises and now it's feeling your pain before you have any. That's rich.

Recruiters should be approached in a similar fashion to schools. Research, check the blacklists. What schools do they recruit for? Ask on this board if anyone has any experience with them.

For instance who has experience with Actioninternational? A google search for actioninternational korea reveals nothing but 2 - yes that is two - links back to Dave's. Two Posts on this board?

Recruiting companies and the law

A sample:
1. Are you registered with the Korean Labor Board? What is your license number?
2. Have you personally visited the Employer and ascertained the working conditions?
3. Have you personally seen the proposed premises and accommodation?
4. Do you have authority to negotiate contractual changes, or merely convey them to the Employer?
5. Most importantly, ask if the recruiter/company is actually part of an education Franchise, and are you being recruited for a school within their own franchise system, thus their independent objectivity may be biased.
6. Some recruiters have comprehensive web sites, though some of the information is somewhat different to reality, however, these recruiters are to be preferred over those who hide behind mere e-mail address

So actioninternational can you answer those 6 questions? Or are you just finessing free advertising on Dave's?

[Homer]

Then again why would they be responsible?

Their responsability is to find jobs for teachers. Why would a placement agency be held responsible for what may or may not happen once a person accepts a job?

Also, some recruiters (a few) have a network in Korea and do help teachers who have problems.

However, no one has mentionned that recruiters also get burned by less then honest teachers or by irresponsible individuals who welsh on their commitements.
What about those teachers who are placed and then just run because they miss mommy? Most of the times this means the recruiter has to refund the placement fee to the school.

The coin has both sides people.

[Dalton]

[Gord]

[wylde]

it wouldn't be so bad but 90% of recruiters out there advertise that they WILL speak for you...

i don't know where you get (a few) from homer but it is crap.

[Dalton]

[Gord]

[Canucksaram]

Homer, the only reason I can imagine a recruiter would care about the teachers they place is if the recruiter had a long-term plan to create and maintain a good reputation. The market for recruiting EFL teachers to work in Korea is huge, and if a recruiter can place good teachers at good schools, then the recruiter wins on all sides: (1) they make money; (2) they earn a good rep with teachers for having jobs with good contracts and working conditions, and thus have a steady supply of jobseekers; (3) they earn a good rep with schools (it's the schools that pay the bills, right?) for supplying good teachers, and thus have return clients.

No reasonable person expects guarantees from a recruiter. But if a recruiter really did care about making a name for itself then yes, they'd develop a system to screen both schools and teachers to eliminate problems before they occur (in addition to using what little power they have to help teachers if things go sour), and then watch their business grow.

After-service to both parties is important. Even though teachers don't pay fees to recruiters, without a supply of good teachers a recruiter has nothing to offer his clients. And if a recruiter has a history of placing bad teachers then no schools will pay for their service, will they?

There are good recruiters, despite the horrific reputation of the "typical greedy Korean recruiter," just as there are good people working as EFL teachers, despite the all-too-prevalent image of foreign teachers being shiftless backpackers, losers that can't find good jobs at home, or alcoholic oversexed slackers chasing Asian poontang.

I wish I had the contacts and startup money to create the ideal recruiting business we'd all like to see. Operating such a business would be like having a license to print money, but like all waking dreams, the doing is much harder than the dreaming.

Thanks for your input, folks, and cheers to you all.

-Canucksaram

[Dalton]