Korean Job Discussion Forums

jlb · Joined: 18 Sep 2003

Hello everyone. My story is kind of a long story and I will tell all of it and post the name and location of the school when all this is settled. This school deserves to be on the blacklist.

Anyway...when you get fired, if you've been there less than 6 months there is basically nothing you can do. Get a release letter and find another job or go home. Also, if there's less than 5 (?...I think) employees there is also nothing you can do so don't waste you're time fighting or even going to the labor board. Also...common sense would say don't take a job at a really small hogwan because there would be nothing you could do if they screw you....making it more likely to happen!

1. First thing is to contact www.efl-law.com I found their email response much more helpful than their phone contact number. It's free legal advice and quite good. Without them, I would have just given up and gone home.

2. Then go to the immigration office, preferably with your school owners so you can cancel your work visa. If you're owners won't come, then your visa won't be cancelled and there's no issue about staying in the country. At least this is what the office in Daejon told me, we'll see at the airport I guess. This info. came straight from the head guy at that office so I think it's probably trustworthy. The guy at the front desk was screwing me around until I started to make a scene and cry, then I got whisked away to the back room to the chief immigration guy.

If you are with your school owners and your visa does get cancelled then you have 14 days to leave the country BUT you will also need to go to the labor office and file a complaint and they will give you a piece of paper that you can bring back to immigration and get more time (30 days I think.)

If this all goes wrong, the last option is taking a ferry to Japan or China and coming back on a tourist visa.

3. Efl-law advised me that I did not have to leave my apartment until everything was concluded with the labor board but I left early and received my last month's pay and housing deposit. I had places to go and didn't want to live in paranoia as they had a key to my apartment. But if you don't have somewhere to go, apparently there's no legal action your school can take against you.

4. So after immigration, go to the labor board. Definitely bring a translator to the labor board and immigration if possible. The labor board will explain you're options...they told me they could do nothing until 14 days after the day I was fired but that my school, because they gave me no notice by Korean law owed me 2 mill. Won. So I engaged in some negotiations with my school to no avail.

5. On day 14 I went to file an official complaint, the form is all in Korean so bring a translator. Then someone will investigate the matter and a hearing with you and your school owners will take place within 7-10 days. Bring a translator!

6. The labor board guy at this point is kind of a pencil pusher...no real power it seems. He just tries to get things solved between you and the school and if it's not solved then sends it higher up. I do think he has the power though to decide if the case is legitimate. Anyway, in my case this guy said they definitely owed me 2 mill. and strongly advised my school and I to negotiate. If negotiations did not settle it in 2 weeks then the case would automatically be sent up to the next level...civil court...investigations...etc...etc...sucking up everyone's time and money. This seems to be something to definitely avoid but efl-law seems to be all for it. I would say just take what you can get and don't waste your time.

7. So, it is settled with my school now...got a plane ticket and some money. I have to go to the labor board and sign a few forms saying that it's finished.

Will post more later when it's settled. Hopefully this helps someone.

For those of you who get screwed by severance pay or get fired or whatever stay and fight. It's only by fighting that things will improve for the industry. Hogwan owners know they can push us around because many don't fight back. There is legal recourse out there if you're willing to put in the effort it takes to go through it.

Gord · Joined: 25 Feb 2003

BTM · Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Location: Back in the saddle.

Very informative post, and no doubt of great use to people who get sacked before the 6-month mark in the future, jlb. Thanks for that.

I'd only add, as an additional point to

mishlert · Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Location: On the 3rd rock from the sun

What do I do if I get fired?
Hmmm, look for another job.
Life is too short, move on.

7969 · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Taiwan

money did you have to spend while settling this whole thing with your old school? other than following through in principle, was it worth it financially?

jlb · Joined: 18 Sep 2003

Well...as for being worth it financially, I have to admit I may not have stayed to fight it out if:

1. I hadn't already booked a vacation to Jeju Island for Chuseok with a non-refundable ticket

2. My friend from Canada wasn't planning to visit me for 2 weeks and had already booked a non-refundable ticket. It worked out quite good with that....we got to hang out together and travel around the country instead of me having to work during the day.

I knew that I would be staying in Korea for both of these things so fighting it out with my school was a bit of a side-issue but it sure felt good! My friend is still here for another few days and my problem is now solved so really it worked out great.

In the end I got the equivalent of 1.7 million won, which I kind of view as one month's extra pay minus the whole working factor. Mabye my priorities were a bit different from some...I wanted to do some travelling around Korea and just be a tourist and this opportunity came up so I took it.

As for paying for somewhere to live, I really haven't had to...many people offered to help me out with that. For the new people reading this, the lesson I learned was how important it is to have connections, mostly Korean. They are the ones who can really help you in a situation like this.

Maybe I'm a sucker for justice to be done but I can honestly say that I'm happy I fought it out. Of course it's a financial risk but I think it was good for my mental health. Letting people bully and take advantage of you isn't a good way to live. Maybe I'm idealistic too but I really hope my school will now think twice before doing this to someone else.

7969 · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Location: Taiwan

good for you. all was not in vain. i'm thinking of coming to korea soon myself. either there or china.... have to see what pans out in the next few days.

K-in-C · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Location: Heading somewhere

crazylemongirl · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Location: almost there...

Kate I've done some searching for you.

The time limit thing seems to be a policy at Mokdong whether they're doing that thing at mokdong still or at your local immigration office is anyones guess.

also try
Incheon immigration laws
RELEASE LETTER
Letter of release
what should i do? release letter or 30 days notice?

Also give efl-law a buzz.

CLG

K-in-C · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Location: Heading somewhere

Thanks CLG,

I did do a search, however none of the scenerios pertained exactly to my situation. I will seek further legal advice. Crying or Very sad

Until next time,

K-in-C

waterbaby · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie

Kate, if you've been at your job for less than six months, she can fire you without notice. Sad but true. No notice required. In regards to the six month thing and you're Letter of Release, seems that some people have had no trouble with getting another E2 visa and some swear they have had trouble. Immigration = inconsistent. Good luck!

Austin · Joined: 23 May 2003 Location: In the kitchen

K-and-C,

Your employer most certainly can terminate your contract without giving you any further notice since she has "justifiable cause." Abusing students and violating the terms of your contract can be grounds for immediate termination (your claim of innocence is irrelevant).

It is totally unreasonable to even suggest that an employer has to keep a disgruntled employee on that is a detriment to their business and the safety of their students.

ulsanchris · Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: take a wild guess

for more info on K-in-C's situation follow this link.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=11028&start=15

ulsanchris · Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: take a wild guess

Seems K-in-C was framed by a student. Very unfortunate. If I was K-in-C i would leave as soon as possible. THe damage has been done, best to just leave and start up somewhere else.
here is another link for more about k-in-c. scroll down until you hit her name.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=11028&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Austin, K-in-C just said she was accused. Doesn't mean she did.
Who cares anyway? A sharp cuff round the ears is probably the best education some kids will ever get. Didn't do me any harm, or any of my students last year!
Of course I've joined the new age bandwagon of no punishment allowed now, and I'll probably never whack a kid again. My hagwons a lot better organised now, with good disciplinary support. Thus, i never get into face-off situations anymore.
If a teacher has to resort to physically punishing a kid, its usually a sign that the school lacks an effective or supportive disciplinary system. If you got stabbed up the rear by brats with sharp pencils, and you weren't allowed to so much as throw them out the class, I'm sure you'd snap at some point.