Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Anti-Korean sentiment...? (long)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Caustic



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I don't understand is the younger students... the ones that will eat at Buger King but Britany Spears albums and wear Polo shirts then protest against the United States. The American presence in Korea is not the cause of their problems. It's funny how right after the 2 girls were squashed by the tank no one cared, hell, there's a big football(soccer) game going on but now, all of a sudden everyone is pissed. Maybe the games filled them with national pride and they just took the next step, seems possible.

Kudos to you Scott, good points. But you have to remember what the Korean people have gone though as a people. At any point in history they have been occupied and controled. For no real long period of time have they been free from some other country. Maybe they feel that they are being subjectgated (is that a word) by the US and really want to be free? I would really like to see what a Korean thinks about this. I know it is not a real vaild excuse but it does not seem unreasonable to think.

Interesting topic

-Paul, the happy heretic-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
william beckerson
Guest




PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how this thread is basically about how superior the west is and how Koreans should be ashamed for not having the same values we do.

At least, thats how I've been reading this thread. Feel free to call me an apologist or something...
Back to top
scott



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

space

Last edited by scott on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa, Scott, let's be careful about mixing stuff like "backward culture" and "cannibalism" in the same paragraph lest it come back to sting you ... I heard of these wierd people called Xtians (or something) and they actually believe they are eating the body and drinking the blood of some guy who died a few thousand years ago.

Ewww ... gross !

Most Christians have as much similarity to Christ as a carp looks like the Carpathian Mountain Range - shouldn't we cut Islam some slack instead of taking the worst examples of it and assuming it's representative of the whole shmear? I realize you are trying to say the opposite, but damn if it doesn't look like you are relating these things as part of muslim culture anyway ...


Last edited by The Bobster on Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
teacher



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:25 am    Post subject: Bad joke Reply with quote

An inside joke: "Why are Koreans so proud of their culture? They think it's the only one."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scott



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

space

Last edited by scott on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, well, since you asked, it's barely possible you actually want to know ...

A term like "backward culture" assumes that others - yours, perhaps? - are "forward cultures" and have more of a handle on things than the other ones. People who live inside of these "backward" cultures often look at the culture of science we have the West and notice its hollowness, and the poor job our culture does at making people either happy or even just providing them with a niche and a sense of stability ... such people will be as likely to use derogatory labels like "degenerate" to describe where you and I come from.

Both sides are making a big mistake by not trying to learn stuff from the other one - personally, I think Koreans make the biggest mistake by taking things on from the West and abandoning their own heritage way too much ... have a friend, a Korean who went to California to study oriental medicine and taoist philosophy. Why? Said it's not respected here and universities won't teach it to her.

Hmmm.

Yeah, we all have our share of horror stories about Korea but a lot of us have not taken the time to learn much about what is behind it all - no, not saying that trying to understand the culture is on the road to making excuses for it ... saying the opposite, that there is some strength and wisdom to be found mid all the garbage. Heck, even cannibals have psycho-spiritual rationale, but no, I don't respect it and don't want a bunch of them living next door, either.

We probably agree on most things, including the genius of Allan Konigsberg ... just have a hard time with words like "backward" because it seems to sit very close next to words like "stupid" and that sort of thing is a big mistake to apply on the level of culture ...

Peace, ok?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scott



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

space

Last edited by scott on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:07 am    Post subject: Well.. Reply with quote

First, a little joke:

A Chinese man, A North Korean, and a South Korean are all on tour in America. They pass by a brouchure rack with a sign which reads:

"PLEASE FEEL FREE TO HAVE ONE"

Collectively, their English is not so great. So, they debate the sign.

The Chinese man says "I do not know the word FREE"

The North Korean man says "I do not know the word HAVE"

The South Korean man says "I do not know the word PLEASE"

---------------------------------------------------------------------



The reason for this joke?

The absolute WORST thing I hate about Korea is how DAMN RUDE everyone is.

They push in front of you in line-ups/ques at the bank, subway station, bus stop..etc.

It's funny when I hear Koreans say "foriegners have no manners".

They rarely use the word "Putak Hamnida" which is "please". They rarely say "Jusseyo" in the store (which is a polite way of saying give me please).

I understand their culture in that they do not "socially recognize" strangers, so they do not exist.

But, to the point of being rude? Culture has nothing to do with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J.B. Clamence



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the sentence "I'm from a different culture, so I have different values" serves as an excuse to be free of fault to do anything, whether you are in another country or your own. It should be accepted for some actions, but certainly not all. But it seems that some people are willing to forgive any behavior which is common among certain groups solely on the basis that they have different values than us.

It was my understanding that one of the main complaints that is being made here (and seems to be under fire) is about the racism that some westerners experience here in Korea. Some are called names by people on the street, and some are even attacked at random. Does anyone here really seek to excuse this behavior on the basis of "Koreans have a different culture and different values"?? If so, what would you say if a Ku Klux Klan member burned a cross in a black family's front yard, set their church on fire, and then in his own defense simply claimed, "Hey man, that's just how we do it down here."

By the way, I understand that the actions of the KKK should not be considered representative of the South, but a KKK member wouldn't see it that way, so that's why I figured he might use this defense. But does that defense work? Should he be excused because he has "different values"??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guy Incognito
Guest




PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
guy incognito....if we don't accept racism in america then why we should accept it here?


Because you're not in America. The west prides itself on the concept of equality, and when it doesnt happen then we should get angry. Korea's concept is "Shut up and do what you're told" Our thought on that is worthless.
Back to top
Dan



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Sunny Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keep this in mind folks

for all the technological advances, korea is still an isolated, work in progress nation, with little foreign exposure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pilcrshr



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although this thread has gotten a bit heated, its good that is has remained fairly civil. I was just posting my thoughts on the subject. People seem to be quite polarized on this subject. It was never my intention to try and persuade anybody, but simply to try and cast a glimpse from another angle. Oftentimes with bad experiences, people tend to become even more focused on the negative aspects.

One last comment regarding the Korean shop owners in the United States. Its sad, but when you boil things down to the bare minimum, the most effective method is to COMPLAIN. Those who complain the loudest are often heard. This seems to be true for not only the United States, but for many other countries. From the poorest corners of the nation to the highest government officials, those who cry the loudest are heard. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott : A culture is not "backward" simply because they have not developed cell phones and choose some other fashion of clothing bedsides herringbone suit-vest with tie and matching handkerchief ... and if they have those things but their minds are connected to another cultural framework than ours, then they are simply themselves, and also not "backward." Yeah, sure, you and I might find it easy to think so because we prefer to think of our own cultures as at the top of the heap. Such things have always proved temporary if history is any judge.

Try to keep in mind that for every aspect of another culture which you personally do not find appealing, there equally many things that others will find lacking in our own way of life.

Judging a culture by means of reason is a cute way of stacking the deck in favor of the West, don't you think? Reason is not a criteria that societies have used for building their culture, at least not until the Rennaissance and the Age of Enlightenment, and only for those European cultures that were influenced by it. Prior to that time, Europen culture was exactly as "backward" as any other culture, merely in different ways ... again, this requirement that a culture use reason to come to it's conclusions is rather convenient for you and I, because we come from places that for several hundreds of years have been engaged in that project of reshaping human culture along the lines of reason and logic and so quite understandably these are values that are important to us.

However, the fact that they are important to us does not make them better ... but maybe you're right and I'm wrong and the world is getting to be too small a place for cultures to coexist that are so widely divergent. The next century or so will tell, I suppose.

(Allan Stewart Konigberg is the name given by his parents to guy you and I know as Woody Allen.)

J.B. Clemence : the problems the Klan has had are problems of history - to wit, they wish to live in another time than the one in which they do. Not a single one of their wierd notions would have been thought unusual 150 years ago. In fact, those values and ideas were quite right (well, not "right" but perhaps appropriate) for their time and place.

It's actually not terribly wierd or even incorrect for Koreans to be racist at this time in history, at least within their own country - there are not many other ethnic groups here, I notice. When Korea tries to have relationships with people from other countries, either here on their own soil or as trading partners - that's when problems arise. We are aware that it's not at all the best way for them to do business, but it's their call, not ours ...

We have come here, in most cases, as temporary workers - not applicable to compare with the laws and protections of the West, where immigration is accepted as a liklihood, not just a possibility. Koreans might want the benefits of being part of the world community but they are not happy about having the world IN their community ... yeah, we can think that's a lousy way to behave and think, but I'll have to agree with Guy Incognito here - it's their country. They decide what works for them, even if you and I know it's not gonna work.

Yeah, and before I get flamed, I'm really on your side ... I really DON'T think absolutely anything can be excused as an aspect of culture. Personally, I wanted to go into Afghanistan and topple the Taliban long before 9/11, just for the crime of not teaching little girls to read. I recall reading something in the UN Charter about the basic right of children to get an education, you see. But, hey, we all have different buttons that gets pushed and that's one of mine ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scott



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

space

Last edited by scott on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International