Korean Job Discussion Forums

[briguy]

Hello All....

My partner and I are considering getting CELTA certified in Thailand at ECC. Questions:

1. In what ways will getting CELTA certified improve employment options and compensation?

Aside from the benefits of being better prepared to teach ESL, will the 2000$ worth of training, flight and living expenses improve our options enought to cover the costs of training in the first year?

For example, many schools offer a range of 1.9 to 2.1 mil won, based on experience and credentials. The compensation difference of 200,000 won over 12 months is 2.4 mil. 2.4 mil with todays exchange rate is approx 2,000 american dollars. So, if getting CELTA certified improves our compensation from 1.9 to 2.1 we would recoup the 2,000 dollars after the first year. Does this seem like a reasonable analysis?

2. Whats the word on the street about the CELTA training at ECC?

Thanks to all in advance for your responses.
-Brian and Diane

[posco's trumpet]

[Jasmine]

Hi,

I took the CELTA through ECC last September. I just read the link posted above and I have to say that all of it is false!

I had a great time doing the CELTA and I learned a lot. The instructors were great - very professional - and very fair.

You get plenty of opportunity to teach Thai adults - in fact, you have to teach a short 10 minute class on the first day.
After each teaching session, you are given feedback and told how you can improve!
You are expected to observe well-trained teachers working for the British Council as well as untrained teachers working at ECC - you can see a big difference in their teaching ablilities!

The CELTA is a lot of work - especially if you want an A or B, but it is well worth it...not just for the higher paycheque, but also for the opportunity and the fact that it is widely recognised and respected throughout the world.

Good luck.

[JennyJJ]

Sorry, just meant to edit my own post and ended with all this stuff!

Anyway, I hope this is it:

Hello Brian and Diane,

What follows is just my opinion - other people often hold very strong opinions on some of the issues.

CELTA yes, is well recognized. However, my guess is that you will not end up well compensated for the improvement in your qualifications.
Very few schools (byt that I mean hogwans) in Korea seem to really appreciate a certified teacher. However, I know a few qualified teachers and I suspect that they are MUCH better teachers (in general) than those with no training at all.

I doubt that once you have paid the fees at ECC you will be able to live as cheaply as you are hoping - so you may want to take a look at them again. Also, does your final calculation include airfare to/from Thailand?
You also want to consider comparable quality but lower cost courses such as TEFL Int'l and Text-and-Talk.

As a formal tefl certificate teacher-trainer, something I can tell you is that of all the certification schools in Thailand the content is about 80+ per cent the same. SO, look for a good positive teacher who has experience teaching kids and adults and with whom you find a positive chemistry.

Even the six week courses are very intense and if you don't like or can't get along with your teacher - it will be a miserable time. As part of my training as a tefl-cert teacher I observed several different tefl-cert teachers - teaching the same material. Some s*cked and there was only one that I would have actually wanted to take such a course from. But then I was an experienced and picky teacher.

Most schools in Thailand will let you, or even encourage you, to sit in for a few days without paying. Do that, but first (as you'll probably get sold right away) talk to the different teachers that are available. Picking the right teacher can double or triple your experience. You might also want to look at the different schools.

Again, only my opinion, but the variation between different teachers is so great, the variation in content so little, that you might want to make your school decision based on the teacher. I KNOW - as many people will yell later - that CELTA is the old workhorse, but you find many people with TEFL certs who have no trouble picking up even some of the best jobs. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter.

Or, even within ECC - if you have really made a final decision, there may be several teachers and you might do better to meet and chose the one you think might best fit you - even if it means delaying the start of your course a couple weeks.

Are there a few employers who only want CTEFL certs? Yes, but then there are a few universities that want only MATESOLs, and what of us with M.Ed.'s with PGCE's in TEFL? Or what of MATESOL people when certain schools want/prefer a PGCE? There is some of that in the industry - but not enough to make a real difference. Most employers (at higher levels anyway) will make their choice based on what they perceive as your ability to handle the work. Not on your specific qualification (beyond a minimum requirement anyway).

Finally, sorry for such long note!, getting the right training (and teacher) can well make the difference between deciding that you will love this career (I do), and pursue it for most of your life, or just do it as a lark for a few years. Once you are out there teaching you will be able to see the difference.

Good luck and enjoy

[JennyJJ]

One last note - CELTA is adult focused. THe other schools can give you more experience with children. Check to see if ECC will give you a variety of teaching experiences. You know, of course, that when you come to Korea you will most likely end up teaching children. Teaching adults and teaching kids are two different ball games!

[Jasmine]

With ECC, you can chose a variety of certificates. CELTA is adult-focussed, but they offer other courses that focus on childern that are also done through Cambridge Uni.

Yes, TEFL can be just as good as the CELTA - but be careful!!! There are many TEFL courses that aren't done through Trinity college and aren't really recognised - although it will still cost you a pretty penny. I have a friend who took a TEFL course in Thailand through TEFL Intl in Thailand and,k it turns out it's not recognised in Europe.

If you're going to shell out the $ for a Certificate, do it right. Do the Cambridge CELTA or the Trinity TEFL, otherwise your little piece of paper might not be worth anything.

Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

Oh, with CELTA, you don't have only one teacher trainer - you have between 3-4, so if you don't get on with one, you'll surely get on with the others....although, I had no problems. They were all very helpful and very good at their jobs.

[JennyJJ]

As I said earlier this topic has some serious (if not fanatical) people heavily invested in it. Some posters may have ties to the organizations that provide certificates � though they may hide that affiliation. The issues of CELTA vs. other certificates is an old and tired debate � one you can follow on the teacher training forum on this board. Whether a certification is done through Trinity College or not does not make it �recognized�. Should only one organization in the entire world set itself up as the only people who know TEFL teaching? I think not. There are other evaluation models and organizations that work just fine. Most people find the general debate and the ongoing �tit for tat� of CELTA vs. the rest of the world on the teacher training board exhausting. I do and will bow out of this one after this response.

I still stand behind my comments.

Brian and Diane asked specifically about teaching Korea � where they will most likely end up teaching children, and about the CELTA which is the Cambridge �Certificate in Teaching English to Adults�. My comments we directed towards those issues � not towards teaching in Europe or other certificates offered by Cambridge.

As Brian and Diane seemed concerned about costs � I also suggested that they consider other TEFL Cert. providers. It is well known that the CELTA franchise providers have to pay as much as 40% of tuition fees to their mother organization thus keeping their costs quite high compared to their competitors. Budget-minded people need to consider all the options available to them.

I would agree with Jasmine that if you are going to teach in Europe � CELTA is the cert. to get. TEFL Int'l, I'm sure, would disagree as they have several very successful schools in Europe and successfully place their students there.

However, most of East Asia (by far the largest EFL market in the world), and particularly Korea (where Brian and Diane have indicated they wish to teach), has no preference for a specific name brand and will be happy to get a well-trained teacher.

In regards to multiple trainers, I would again agree with Jasmine that the diversity offered may be an advantage. However, still it is important to get your supervised teaching done with students of your target population (children in this case) and with supervisors/trainers that have experience with that specific population. And with teacher/trainers that love the career. Don�t assume you will get these things � you should still call and ask, listen to all the comments by everyone on this board and others - and then make your own judgement.

[loki]

Hi,

What about the middle east? Is there a preference between CELTA and other courses there?

If, there is a preference ( I suspect there is), then the mid east, Europe and North America have a slant towards CELTA. Asia, Africa, and perhaps South America value it on par with other TEFL certs.

It looks like the first world wants the CELTA and the second and third are simply less rigid and will accept other TEFL certs.

I won't say it's better but it's simply better recognized!

Eric

[JennyJJ]

I said I was going to get out of this one, but since Eric asked . . .

I taught in the Middle East for five years and frankly, you won't get a DECENT job there with any certificate - you'll need a master's degree. The same is true at least for America (USA). So the premise that CELTA is better recognized is only true for UK English oriented regions of the world: Canada, Europe, and former UK colonies, and that is about it.
It unfortunately is just a form of name-brand-ism. Depending on how much attention you want to pay to it. I have an MEd and a PGCE, and there are places that want only MATESOL's and there are places that want
only PGCE's and on and on.

Of course, people who have a CELTA want to promote it is the ONLY way to go as it enhances their opportunity - to the exclusion of others. It is no different form the MATESOL/PGCE debate.

However, again, the question asked was about Korea. There is no doubt that East Asia - again, the biggest EFL market in the world - has no preference.
Just my opinion.

Now I promise I am out of here!

[inkorea]

I think that the childrens course that all of you are talking about is a CELTC. CELTA is a course geared towards teaching adults. I have a friend that took the CELTC in Canada and that course is geared towards teaching children. My assumptions are that the CELTA is for adults not children.
Am I wrong, anyone?

[cubase]

The CELTC is in no way related to the Cambridge-managed CELTA course. In my opinion, it's a trick by ILI (which also does reputable CELTA courses) to recruit teachers for hogwon jobs in Korea and make the teachers pay for the service. It's true that there is some coursework and methodology, and the teachers are likely excellent, but you'll graduate with a certificate that looks like a CELTA, but isn't.

Oh, and you'll have to work at a Korean hogwon that they assign you to. You don't get to negotiate, as far as I know. And any time a dispute breaks out with your owner, in his back pocket is his threat, "do as I say or you'll fail the course..."

I'm actually very interested to hear from people teaching in Korea on this plan. I'd like to know how they're being treated, and if they would have rathered found their Korean job independently, with the right to negotiate their contracts themselves.

[santalucia]

The only globally recognized initial teaching qualifications are ones which are accredited by the British Council - in the absence of a global accreditation body, the BC functions as the de facto accreditation body. An MA in TESOL is only accepted globally if you did it at an accredited University. In essence this means the teaching qualifications designed and delivered as part of the Trinity Collage London or University of Cambridge - The Trinity CertTEFL, DipTEFL and the Cambridge CELTA and CELTYL (Like the CELTA but for young learners) and the DELTA. Some UK Universities also run MA TESOL courses which allow time off if you already have a CELTA or DELTA. A British Initial Teaching Qualification (BEd or PGCE) - one that gives you qualified teacher status - with a specialization in ESOL, or it equivalents from other anglophone countries will also be globally recognised.

For Korea, the EFL market is largely YLs, so knowing how to teach them is preferable. For this reason, as the Trinity CertTEFL includes Young Learner teacher training from the start, this is the one to do if you want a good all-round TEFL certificate, although the CELTA is possibly better known outside of Europe.

The CELTC is NOT a Cambridge or Trinity Course. You can do the CELTYL certification on its own or as part of a 60 hour extension to your CELTA (many go to Thailand to do this). You can also do an ICELT, which is designed for people already teaching English. This is a Cambridge course, and you can do it in Korea while you are teaching.

In Korea, you do NOT need any kind of TESOL certification to teach. Nor are Korean employers particularly appriciative of expensive qualifications (they are only just begining to pay more for qualified native speakers). However, if you are at all concerned with the quality of your teaching, you will want to get at least some knowledge of what to do in the classroom, or your job will be very stressful.

If you don't want to shell out, and just want something that will help you teach kids better, try Oxford University Press Young Learner Online Certificates. This is NOT BC accredited, but is at a level consistent with what you would expect on a Cambridge YL program, except it's shorter and you don't have class observations.

Resources:

Oxford TESOL online:
http://www.oxford.co.kr/eng/pr/wmv.html

British Council Teacher Training in Korea:
http://www.britishcouncil.org/korea-teacher-training-main.htm