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ECC Incheon

 
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jamie



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Location: America

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:46 am    Post subject: ECC Incheon Reply with quote

Anybody have any info on the ECC school in Incheon? I got an offer.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
YBM/ECC, located at the most desirable districts
throughout Seoul and InCheon, is looking for teachers
to start beginning of May to teach children. No
experience is necessary, only a minimum requirement
of a three or four year BA in any discipline.


Standard.

Quote:
As the largest and most successful organization in our
field today, we can offer you the following:

- 200 000 won relocation bonus paid to all successful
applicants upon arrival


This is yummy...

Quote:
- Free furnished single or shared housing in new
apartments, walking distance to the school


Standard

Quote:
- Round trip ticket to Seoul, couriered to your
doorstep


Standard

Quote:
- 10 days vacation plus 12 national holidays


Minimum required by law. (standard)

Quote:
- Bonus for unused sick days


Yummy....but no specifics

Quote:
- Severance bonus of one month's salary paid upon
completion of contract


Standard (required by law)

Quote:
- Universal health insurance (half paid by the school,
half by the teacher, about US$20/month, includes
check-ups and dental care)


Standard (required by law)

Quote:
- Contract salary starting at 1.8 million won or above
for 100hrs/month, 25 hrs/week


1.8 is a bit on the low end .....

Quote:
- Any employee of YBM/ECC is eligible for a 50%
discount for Korean language classes at the YBM/ELS
office near Chongno-3-ga


Wow. A cookie. (I might actually use it..)

Your call man. I would wait for a few more offers before saying yes.

Like I said...1.8 is a bit low....
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jamie



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Location: America

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your help. Yes, I'm awaiting feedback from several employers so I'm hoping that they hurry with a decision. I've heard no really bad feedback from the ECC in Incheon and the recruiter I'm going through will definately let me speak with current teachers. The only things that bug me are the shared apartments and the 1.8won which is a little low. We'll see....
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's 1.8 for 25 hours a week, while "Average" is considered 1.9-2.0 for 30 hours. Given the amount of hours, it's "above average" unless you luck out and get a school that won't use you for 30 hours a week but pay you 2.0 anyway.

But if you've finished a year and you're good, you should be looking for jobs that pay 3.0 or higher. Not so much looking, but they come to you.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Obvious 2.0 wrote:
It's 1.8 for 25 hours a week, while "Average" is considered 1.9-2.0 for 30 hours. Given the amount of hours, it's "above average" unless you luck out and get a school that won't use you for 30 hours a week but pay you 2.0 anyway.

But if you've finished a year and you're good, you should be looking for jobs that pay 3.0 or higher. Not so much looking, but they come to you.


Oh come on Captain. You know as well as I do that when they say 25 hours a week, they usually manage to make you work longer.

You should accept nothing under 2 million Won, period.
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Wall of Whiner wrote:
Oh come on Captain. You know as well as I do that when they say 25 hours a week, they usually manage to make you work longer.

You should accept nothing under 2 million Won, period.

My first contract said 30 hours a week, and the most I ever did was 23 or 24, with much of the time spent in the 18-20 hours a week range.

The second place I worked at had overtime every single week due to be being short staffed, and I got paid my overtime without needing to be asked.

It also comes down to how good you are. I turn down offers for 3-4 million Won a month because I already have a good schedule, and I get the offers because I am good. 1.8 for 25 hours is VERY good for a first contract. After that if the teacher is good, then they should look at going for 3M+.

Let's say worst case scenario, the person has to work 30 hours a week at an extra 20,000 Won an hour. That's an extra 400,000 a month, or suddenly 2.2 million Won which is above what you are abdicating is a good contract.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Obvious 2.0 wrote:

Quote:
My first contract said 30 hours a week, and the most I ever did was 23 or 24, with much of the time spent in the 18-20 hours a week range.


And you were working for 1.8?

Quote:
The second place I worked at had overtime every single week due to be being short staffed, and I got paid my overtime without needing to be asked.


Because you were lucky. not everyone is as lucky as Captain Obvbious.

Quote:
1.8 for 25 hours is VERY good for a first contract.


So, 1.6 ~ 1.7 is OK then? Confused


Quote:
After that if the teacher is good, then they should look at going for 3M+.


Well, I wouldn't say 3m...that's a bit steep for second year.

Quote:
Let's say worst case scenario, the person has to work 30 hours a week at an extra 20,000 Won an hour. That's an extra 400,000 a month, or suddenly 2.2 million Won which is above what you are abdicating is a good contract.


I see your point, but the thing is: many people end up getting royally shafted in the bum-bum because once they sign on, they are afraid to stick up for themselves, lest they be cast out of the country or locked up in jail. (unfounded fear, but people fear in non-the-less).
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Lost Seoul



Joined: 10 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:46 pm    Post subject: ECC Reply with quote

Here are some previous posts about ECC/YBM/Sisa franchise:

Not sure if the Incheon branch is mentioned but even if it isn't it may give you some idea of how the franchise is run in general. Ask for the EMail addresses of the other foreign teachers at the institute and ask them what its like. Ask many questions, seek many opinions, then, finally, trust your own instincts.

========================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:988047166-6182.txt
Chris
openscript@hotmail.com
English Teacher
Italy
Posted: Unknown

I am currently working in the Italian state school system, where I enjoy a very professional working methodology, and where my confidence in the ESL profession has been fully restored following my return from South Korea.
My statement is simply this, that the ECC/YBM franchises who buy into the main companies name are unregulated by the that head office, and as such the Directors of these private schools are free to treat teachers in any manner they see fit. There are no doubt good schools, but few teachers who leave positive statements about them actually leave the name of the school they work for, so it's difficult to estimate just how many good ECC schools actually operate.
I spent many hours corresponding to the ECC/YBM head office concerning the treatment I was receiving - and yes that treatment was very distasteful (I would be happy to share that experience with any new teacher deciding on a school for the first time). The head office appeared very concerned, and at least for that I am thankful, but no action was, or has to my knowledge been taken.
English teachers did remain following my departure, and their determination to stay with their contracts will always impress me, they are the backbone of ESL. For me, I was pushed further and deeper into a no win situation and was forced to leave - to my deep regret, as I met wonderful friends and simply loved South Korea.
A few points:
1. ECC head office must regulate the Directors buying their name OR continue to take the massive onslaught of negative comments, which teachers have the right to express.
2. Teachers working for professional, responsible ECC franchises should leave the name of that school for all to see.
3. Much of the problems seem to start from the foundations of TEFL; Cheap, unprofessional TEFL courses, terrible recruiters and then the schools.
4.If you are in a unpleasent situation, then always remember you are the professional. I always thought that myself, and now I work to the high standard I expected from ESL teaching.
Well, there's my little contribution to Daves, I hope it was a little constructive and not too angry in its tone.
====================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:988902650-15265.txt
Allain B. budpeace@hotmail.com
For my own security I prefer not to say where I am at this moment.
Posted: May 16, 2001

Yet another "Korean" experience. In the last three weeks 5 Experienced ESL teachers quit working for ECC (Located in 'Howon Dong' area in the City of 'Uijanboo' near Seoul).
The reason for my leaving:
1- 'Extreme Rudeness' and sometimes violent behavior from the owners Mr. & Mrs. YU, towards employers who demanded basic respect.
Other teachres - Mike, Zac, Jullie, and a Korean teacher named May secretly left the city without getting in serious discustions with the owners. I on the other hand stayed and demanded the owners respect and honesty; as they could not swallow their misplaced pride, before an "unworthy employer" they actually tried to get into physical fight with me. Their attempt was stopped by interference of my Korean friend. I now think the other teachers were wiser than I was. I will be taking propper legal action to put these pepole where they belong.

2- 'Dishonest Contracts' that would force us, the teachers work for our 10 days annual vacations that were supposed to be Paid vacations. These smartly written contracts would also allow the school to spread our class hours and give us classes anytime of the day or night.

3- 'State of Chaos', we were not given the books we needed to teach the students from, our teachers room was in fact a narrow balcony turned into a room for 12 teachers, you can imagine how we had to actually push our way through to be able to rest on a chair during the breaks. I had t borrow books from my students to be able to teach them!!

4- 'Home On The Railroad'; I was given a flat in a house right next to the busy Railroad track/Subway that runs between Seoul and Uijanboo, with trains passing every five minutes. Needless to say,most nights I had a hard time going to sleep. Can you imagine just to save $20 to $30 a month, YUs chose to rent a flat there and not in the next block!

**Be aware: These pepole will do anything to get new teachers. They have already told me that if I put my experience with them on the Net, they will fight back. Also this school owner has 3 ECC schools in Uijanboo City, and as he has been desperate for teachers, he have used his business friends such as 'Korea Herald Kids School' to help him recruit new teachers.

The amazing thing is that these people prefer paying lots of money to hire new teachers, over changing their abusive behavior and dishonest contracts to encourage the teachers to stay and not to quit!

I will gladly support you with more inforamtion if need be.

=================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:989579792-15656.txt
May 11, 2001
Posted: May 16, 2001
Barry VanAlstine
barryvanalstine@yahoo.com
Pukpundang, South Korea

I just read the ECC message. There may be some franchise schools that may have shady directors, but ECC Pukpundang isn't one of them.
I'm not the school director or anyone else of authority here. I'm just a teacher that has worked at the school for almost 3 years.
A few points about our school:
1) It is a branch, NOT a franchise. As such our manager has to answer to his higher ups.
2) Mr. Je is a great manager. He is honest and friendly. He helps out whenever he can.
3) To my knowledge nobody has ever been cheated on their paychecks or wrongfully dismissed (or "rightfully dismissed for that matter)
In conclussion, let me say this. There are teachers that may have had a very bad experience with some of the schools, but ECC Pukpundang isn't one of those schools. I have enjoyed my time here and am currently planning on extending my contract for another year.

=====================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:1030329309-9253.txt
Posted: August 25, 2002
I was at ECC wonju for one year. I know, ECC is supposed to be pretty bad, but the one I was at wasn't that that way. It is a franchise and doesn't follow all the ECC guidelines (for better or worse) including the contract. There is no deposit you have to make or any crap like that other ECC schools pull. When I arrived, I did have a morning Saturday class, but my boss axed it a few months later. All in all, it is not a bad place to start out. You always get paid on time and the apt. is ok, nothing special. Wonju is somewhat of a boring place, but fairly close to Seoul.

====================================
http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.108 : ALL ECC"S
Name: Steven Date: 2002-11-07 14:26:27 View: 165
I wanted to start a discussion on how ECC has annoyed people. just post
your comment.

ECC Daerim is not a good place to work. Supervisor name is Kimerbley,
and many foreign teachers have had many problems with her. Alot have left
as a result of her wrong doing. She is hardline and has a hatred or foreign
teacher after seeing so many come and go. She has work for 10 yrs in
English school and doesn't communicate with the foreign teachers. She
only communicate by email or through the korean partner teachers.
The seniour korean teachers in the school informed me of her attitude to
foreign teachers. Having work for this long has made her bitter and she
presumes all foreign teachers are only in korean to drink beer and party
everynight and neglect their teacher duties.
You would expect an understanding supervisor not to hold pre-concieved
notion on foreigners. She is a racist for holding these views.
====================================

http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.108 's Reply : Re: ALL ECC"S
Name: Ashlee Date: 2003-02-20 01:09:26 View: 5
ECC DAERIM SUCK BIG TIME - so do the students and the owner - i left
pronto and was happy to give them the airfare, visa money and relocation fee
back as well as pay for anotherflight to japan to get out of the shonky under
PAID contract - good luck to those still working there - now I have a fab job in
Hongik better pay better house (ie no SHARING) better students and life is
grand. Steven where r u? what happened when u left?
=====================================
http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.108 's Reply : Re: ALL ECC"S
Name: Christine Date: 2002-11-07 14:29:48 View: 69

Stay away from ECC Banpo!
You've been warned.

====================================
http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.111 : ECC Seodaemun-gu
Name: Louis Date: 2002-11-26 09:54:12 View: 58
I was fired from ECC after having worked there for five months. I consider it
to be a tremendous favor on their part as I was miserable there and am
much happier at my new school. I feel awful for the folks who are still there
and afraid to test the waters for something better. The school has the usual
flaws, inefficiency, disorganization etc. What it also has is a fascist for a
director. The mind games and abuse that this women inflicts on her
workers is a crime. It is difficult to elucidate here. Psychological warfare is
really the best analogy I can offer. If she doesnt like a teacher, she abuses
them until they break or leave or both. There is no cultural
misunderstanding here, this women is a petty, vindictive and evil person.
Also, the owners of the school are dishonest and cannot be relied upon to
fullfill their contractual obligations. I would suggest that anyone considering
working at this school, consider otherwise.


====================================
http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook
No.114 : YBM Sisa ECC franchise in Jeonju
Name: J Date: 2002-12-02 22:36:20 View: 43
YBM Sisa ECC franchise in Jeonju.
By .
YBM Sisa ECC franchise in Jeonju.By .
For firing a teacher who posted something negative about the school on
www.eslcafe.com

She called the boss a liar and he fired her.

We want to know why she called him a liar and why he could not provide
her with a warning bout posting messages about the school instead of firing
her????

======================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=203
kimcheeking

Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 296
Location: Land of the Morning Calm
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:50 am Post subject:

my advice is to avoid SISA, any SISA. I worked at chongno about 4 years ago... I was not impressed and felt like I was a dilbert like drone in a machine that didn't know who I was or cared about anything. Plus I felt that they really treated the Korean staff poorly- this caused tension in the office.
==================================
http://www.englishspectrum.com/form2.php3?table=news_blackbook

No.150 : Mr. John, ECC Namyangju
Name: LBWood
Date: 2003-03-26 18:59:39
View: 7

I am writing this message to warn all who are considering teaching in
Korea to avoid Jeon Byong-O (AKA "Mr. John") of ECC Namyangju. The
school is actually owned by Kwan Hye Jin, but is is operated by the
aformentioned Mr. John, who may be her husband.

Mr. John is one of the worst bosses you could ever have the misfortune of
having. He is greedy, stingy, and short-tempered, with little ability to think
logically. Because of this, the atmosphere and morale in the school is
extremely poor. His attitude is that since he has paid a recruiter fee the
teacher is thus his property. In my case, because I had teaching
experience he actually tried to sell me to another school for profit.

Even worse, he is an unrepentant criminal. My contract stipulated that from
my salary 3.3% Korean taxes and 4.5% pension was to be deducted, and
that the pension money would be refunded when I left Korea. When my
year drew to an end I found that he had been committing tax and pension
fraud. He had not remitted either amount to the government. I expected to
get a 9% lump-sum pension refund (my 4.5%, plus the employer's 4.5%)
from the pension corporation, but found that he had not even registered with
the pension corporation despite being required to do so by law.

With the help of the International Tax Office of the National Tax Service,
and the Ministry of Labour, I was able to get most of my 4.5% pension
contribution refunded. At the time of the final refund however, he attacked
me physically and I had to flee the building (fortunately with the money
already in hand).

Take my word for it, you do not need this kind of person in your life. There
is also some reason to believe that the tax fraud is being committed on the
advice of ECC's head office, so I would suggest you avoid the entire chain.
===========================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=2877
Homer

Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 198
Location: Good ole dirty Busan
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2003 2:06 pm
Post subject:

Worked at an ECC in Busan for 2 years. It was a good place to work.
No cheating on the contract. Lived up to all they said.
was a 6 day schedule but that was standard back then.
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Wall of Whiner wrote:
Captain Obvious 2.0 wrote:

And you were working for 1.8?


Actually, 1.9.

The point being that on a "per hour" average, the 1.8M for 25 hours pays more than 2.0M for 30 hours. Thus making it a "better deal".

Quote:
Because you were lucky. not everyone is as lucky as Captain Obvbious.


Not getting overtime is the exception to the rule. I don't know of anyone in Korea I know personally who never got their overtime pay if they were owed it.

Sure, some people may also have had bottle of cola thrown at them by an angry Korean, but just because it happened to someone who wrote about it on a forum doesn't make it common.


Quote:
So, 1.6 ~ 1.7 is OK then? Confused


So breaking out the hypotheticals to try and undermine my argument? Fine, fine.

Not including the rent thats paid for, 1.8 for 25 hours a week is 18,000 Won an hour.

2.0 for 30 hours a week is 16,700 Won an hour.

1.7 for 100 hours is 17,000 Won an hour.

1.6 for 100 hours is 16,000 Won an hour.

You tell me, apparantly you think working for 16,000 - 17,000 Won an hour is fine and dandy. We can dance around all day on hypotheticals if you want, but it doesn't accomplish anything other than underscoring 1.8 for 25 hours a week is a pretty good deal.


Quote:
Well, I wouldn't say 3m...that's a bit steep for second year.


In my second year I was making 4 million Won a month minimum, sometimes as much as 5 million. That's why I find it funny that you're all up and saying how you're this masterful negociator and wondrous teacher who landed a contract that pays 2.x Won per month. Woo. Yes, woo indeed.


Quote:
I see your point, but the thing is: many people end up getting royally shafted in the bum-bum because once they sign on, they are afraid to stick up for themselves, lest they be cast out of the country or locked up in jail. (unfounded fear, but people fear in non-the-less).


Maybe you are. But everyone I spend time with makes 30,000 or more an hour. Don't use your limited observations to generalize in telling me how Korea works.

Hell, look at you. You're saying 16,000 Won an hour is perfectly good. You were bragging about a job that paid 18,000 Won an hour. I don't even discuss working for less than 30,000 and for that it has to be near where I live and small classes. Depending on the school, I charge up to 60,000 Won an hour.

Here, write this down. If you want to make really thick cash, what you do is you find a school that only needs a teacher a few hours a week and work out a deal. You agree to work for "only" 30,000 Won an hour. Of course, you pay for your own apartment and airfare. You are stictly a per-hour employee. In exchange they sponsor your visa with you paying all the costs. Then they agree to add anyone onto it for wherever you want to work.

They get a permanant part-time teacher and you're free to work at any school. School needs a part time guy, go to Immigration, add the school, and BOOM! Working part-time legally at multiple schools for 30-60,000 Won an hour.

There, now you know the secret to why everyone I know makes thick cash.
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