Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Contacting Immigration & Arbitration ...
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> FAQ
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:30 am    Post subject: Contacting Immigration & Arbitration ... Reply with quote

>. My Director sat me down after work on Friday. Through one of the Korean instructors i've exhaustively been tutoring for the past 9.5 months months, i was informed he was hoping to end the contract Shocked From what i was told, he'd like me to work until May 2nd Question He said i could live in my apartment until the 24th. I was told to simply look at it as my contract being shortened by a couple of months Arrow

I met with some fellow English teacher friends over poker tonight & after telling them my story, they strongly urged me to 1 ) Contact immigration immediately and (through my Korean gf) help me gain a clearer sense of my rights. 2 ) If necessary, contact arbitration.

I'm a little at a loss here.

The main reason he gave was that i was too tough on the children Evil or Very Mad and were causing his Hagwon to lose business. Later, he essentially added that i'd wrongly challenged his supreme authority, something to which he seems to feel i have no right ever in questioning. Finally, he added i was working less than what my contract stipulated. The irony here of course is that his WIFE put together the most recent version ( one which has me coming in @ 2:30pm and then teaching from 3-8pm, a half hour break before hitting the phones for 1/2 hr. wrapping up @ 9pm ). Even if i may ( given my rapport with the kids ) disagree with his main beef, i've long realized there's ZERO benefit in arguing.

It has been suggested to me i'm at least entitled to 10 months worth of my BONUS ( something which i strongly suspect he's trying to rob me of ). Also, because i've been asked to work until May 2nd, i'm NOT being FIRED Exclamation Question Exclamation Might anyone have any thoughts on this or any of the other related matters ???

Any insight or advice would of course be greatly appreciated Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain and simple, he is breaking your contract.

Tell him as much. If he still insists on breaking the contract, please let us know the name of your school so we fellow English teachers don't wind up in a similar situation with this school.

Also, let him know about this website, and the fact that he will have an aweful time finding a replacement that will work at his hagwon when he pulls this kind of crap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harvard Material



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:38 pm    Post subject: Released early... Reply with quote

The Whiner is right. You can look at www.hagwonreport.com to get some numbers you will need to fight back. Don't accept anything less than your return plane ticket - or an equal amount - and you severance package to date. Agree to leave if those conditions are met. If not, don't accept it.
You aren't being fired - you are being played for a fool. The time to fire you, if there was a time, was a while ago. Why wait until 2 months before you complete your contract? Rather obvious, isn't it? Don't accept it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Contacting Immigration & Arbitration ... Reply with quote

igotthisguitar wrote:
Might anyone have any thoughts on this or any of the other related matters ???


Personally, from your postings on this forum, I think you're a confronational person who lacks the knowledge to understand the position you take while at the same time feel you are superior simply because you speak English and English speaking ability is the sole means of judging the worth and value of a person in society.

As such, I laugh. A laugh a lot. You're being legally fired. Legally fired with just cause and no legal means to get your severance package. Yet even now in the face of everything and being told in a most extreme fashion you are a horrible monster, you still seek to blame others for problems you create.

Of course, it's always someone else's fault. They speak less English than you, so it must be there fault.

Here's the correct answer. Sit down, go "god damn, I'm a horrible monster and I should be praying for death. I see that now. I choose to accept responsability for my actions and now seek to make myself a better person."

BUt you won't do that. You speak English, you must be perfect. You speak it so well that I humbly request that I get your autograph. Perhaps a second one that I can sell on eBay? You're so dreamy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kimcheeking
Guest




PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CO2.0,

where do you come up with this stuff?


to the OP, what does your contract say about termination? usually there is a clause 1 month or 2 months... show him that and stick to it. Yes I think you may be getting screwed. I suggest you ignore Captain Obvious.
Back to top
denz



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: soapland. alternatively - the school of rock!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:44 pm    Post subject: yesh well Reply with quote

hey capt,

that's a bit harsh considering the guy has made only 9 posts. probably not sufficient evidence to convict anyone, eh?

denz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hotuk



Joined: 10 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

that's a bit harsh considering the guy has made only 9 posts. probably not sufficient evidence to convict anyone, eh?


I was thinking the same thing. He's being fired at the 10th month. Presumably, if he's a bad teacher, everything he's doing badly now, he was doing at month 4, or 7, or 8. So why is he being axed now? Severance, of course. A contract violation is a contract violation. Has the boss ever worked with our friend to help improve his teaching, if he in fact has found something disagreeable? Doesn't sound like it.

Furthermore, I don't believe Captain Pants is in any position to be lecturing others on legal matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harvard Material



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:49 am    Post subject: Captian Obvious and his contract comment. Reply with quote

WOW! What the Hell is THAT!? You know something Captian Obvious? I usually find your comments very informative, and justified. You can be a bit abrasive, but that is your personality. People don't like it? Too bad. This time? Man-oh-man...slow down buddy!

What is happening to this person is illegal, and if they (the institute in question), let's this person go without a justifiable reason he will get his full salary, full severance and return airfare. Waiting until the 10th month to dismiss a teacher for being a 'bad' teacher, or 'too hard' on the students? It's illegal! The same crap was pulled on me at a hakwon, and I refused to accept it. I finished my contract, I got my severance payment and I got my return airfare. I didn't accept that I was a 'bad' teacher, or that my students 'didn't like' me, and so on. At four or five months? Fine. I could accept that. At 10 months? *&#$-off! Every hakwon in Korea was doing that 10 years ago to avoid paying severance and airfare costs, and a law was passed to prevent owners from doing such.

igotthisguitar! Stick it out. E-mail me, send a pm...whatever. Do not fold, and do not listen to the (sorry C.O.), garbage that the Captian has provided here. I don't understand why the Captian would state that. I used to have a degree of respect for his posts. Sometimes he is absolutely right, but...

Guess what the next teacher at this institute is gonna' get after 10 months? "Sorry. You just aren't our kind of employee. Thanks a lot for forfeiting your bonus and your return flight. You just saved us $3,000.00 U.S. for almost a year's worth of commitment to our institute." But they will provide you with an OUTSTANDING REFERENCE I bet! For being a bad teacher...

igotthisguitar! What institute is this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rasta man
Guest




PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where do you get coming off like this Captian (or should I say Captian Apologist)? The guy is getting shafted and you say its his fault...your reasoning, his 8 count them 8 previous posts and you come to the conclusion that the guy is a liar, brought this on himself. Do you know something about this person we don't? Have you met him? Do you know his director? I really doubt it since you didn't mention it.

Your attiude about this person is truly disgusting. He comes asking for advice and you give him this? You give all of us who work hard helping our fellow teachers who are being shafted by schools a bad reputation.

I sincerely hope you get put in a situation like this guys and it will happen trust me people like you do get what they deserve. And when they do don't come crying to us. We'll all say "you're a lousy teacher and a liar you deserve what your hogwon gives you"

nuff said before I get banned
Back to top
PootyTang



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Valley of the sun

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cappy,






Just in case you can't see the emicon well enough, he is dissapointed in you...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>. Hello out there Laughing

For starters i'd mainly like to thank the majority of ppl who've been posting their thoughts, suppportive comments & suggestions. I'm sure most of you know at least one or two foreign English teachers who've worked here in Korea & been treated in a similar roughshod fashion Shocked

Contrary to the all knowing Captain's scathing assertions, i've long sought to act in a largely civil & diplomatic as well as honourable way. So much for this imaginary Asian tenet Rolling Eyes As far as the kids go, the majority of them really seem to dig me and my teaching style. I find most of them really are such loveable little rascals. It's the 2 or 3 holy little terrors which have thought they could, contrary to my daily numerous warnings, persistently get away with nappun-gi, nappun mal, and just generally poor behaviour in my classroom who've discovered i expect them to act in a little more respectful manner Mad

Upon my poker buddies' urging, i immediately this morning popped by immigration. With my Korean gf acting as something of a intermediary i was advised of what their rep saw as being my two main options ... 1 ) I attempt to effectively resolve matters on my own with my Director; OR 2 ) If this avenue falls short of what we are together able to agree on, request immigration themselves mediate the issue. We'll of course be dropping by once again tomorrow morning in an effort to more generally seek some greater degree of both clarity & direction.

What i'm at this stage naturally a little confused about is that i thought ARBITRATION in fact functioned as its own departmental entity ??? I hope those stories of bribing officials w/ $100,000 won and a bottle of soju don't prove accurate Shocked As it stands, I've just this evening put together a letter of release which i'm hoping to take in to work tomorrow for Juan Jongnim to sign.

As it stands he HAS indicated verbally that i can retain my return ticket to Canada ( not that i ever surrendered this in the first place Wink ). Please, DON'T anyone upon your arrival EVER be so gullible as to hand over your return ticket !!! The release further states that he will pay me 10 months worth of my severance bonus salary AND allow me to reside in my apartment until no later than June 24th. Given his stubborn character, these latter 2 points i can forsee him dragging his feet on. While i'm hoping we can engage in a process which allows him to "save face", if all else fails we WILL be going to arbitration ( ideally though through channels more entirely independent of immigration).

HOW is it btw that a number of you insist what he is trying to pull essentially contravenes Korean labour law ??? For those of you who've been asking, the school is one of Gwang-Ju's REI ( Reformed English Institute ) Mi-Guk Languagee Sukools. While i'm really not too keen on getting more specific on things @ this stage, i'd imagine if they're not willing to play ball, for whatever it's worth, they could quickly end up a classic BLACK LIST Hagwon candidate.

As far as the Captain's dark force comedy, thanks to his not-so gracious comments he strangely enough reminds me of the Darth-like Director who's hoping to shaft me. Christ, he's not actually Korean is he ??? Laughing Poor guy. My sense is his resentment stems from the fact i dared to challenge his Grand Emprickal Wisdom on a current entirely unrelated thread.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=3039&highlight=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Crazy Oz



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Ilsan, Korea

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out your original contract. You will most likely find provision for dismissal or ending the contract early for various reasons. These reasons can be "misconduct", "bringing the school into disrepute", "losing business", etc and usually specify immediate dismissal. Termination of the contract can be done by either party for any reason giving the required notice (usually 30 to 45 days).
The "Mums" are the powerbrokers in this business, if they complain about your interactions with the kids you are stuffed. It only takes one to put the nail in your contractual coffin. Perhaps one of the "holy terrors" Mums have suggested that you are not suitable to instruct the liitle tearaways. Depending on the community influence of that Mum repercussions can follow.
If there are a number of other teachers at the school then I would say it could well be an economic purge, if not, you have been lined up for early replacement, perhaps due to your style and/or methods. CO2 may well be right, I don't know, but I would take it as a construct based on whatever information he has, plus a little jibe at the way foreigners are viewed in Korea, and you did ask for "thoughts on the matter".
Get your release letter, move on and learn from the experience. There are plenty of openings for work in this place, so perhaps the next might be more rewarding.

As for the serverance payment you are not entitled to it. It is for contract completion - no contract completion, no bonus.

Still crazy, still here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
lawyertood



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Incheon and the World--working undercover for the MOJ

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not totally clear on some of the things in your original post. Does he want you to work until May 2 but vacate the apartment by April 24 or May 24? If the former I would try to adjust it.

Like Crazy Oz said you are not entitled to severance unless you complete the entire year of your contract. If you are in the second year of a contract then you can prorate for the months after the first year. You are entitled to thirty days notice or thirty days pay should he terminate your employment prior to the end of the contract. That being said you can still try to negotiate terms that are agreeable to both parties.

I think the proper place for resolving this is your local Labor Board and not immigration. You will need a Korean friend you trust as many at the Labor office have limited English skills. You should realize, though, as a foreigner you will have a more difficult time convincing Labor that you were wrongfully terminated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>. Thanks Lawyer Wink

You raise a number of key pressing points Idea Verbally, he has notified me it is his intent to ( in order to allow them time to find a suitable replacement ) keep me working until May 2nd. Accordingly, he has said i may stay in my apartment until May 24th.

You are correct re : the Labour Board. This was the advice given to me through Immigration. I will certainly be pursuing this avenue & if upon presenting the Director with my letter of release we are unable to agree to the terms stated therein, arbitration it will be.

Thankfully i DO have a helpful long-term Korean gf Laughing This i realize is a big bonus. There are also a few things which in light of the way my contract reads ( in English ) i feel will clearly strengthen my hand. It will be argued he is thereby breaching the contract on a number of different grounds.

I'll post all further developments hopefully no sooner than May 10th. This is of course the date when i can confirm whether or not my final formal monthly salary has in fact been deposited into my bank account or not Question
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Harvard Material



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:46 pm    Post subject: Released early... Reply with quote

Yes you can be released - at any time - for what is considered to be misconduct while at work. Any job in every country. I think that is implied.
What behaviour is considered misconduct is another matter. It has to be substantial, and telling me (or you), that a mother is upset is not a reasonable suggestion. 10 mothers? Yes. 1 or 2? That is such a lame cop-out. Nobody complained for 9.5 months, but all of a sudden you have to forfeit your apartment, severance, airfare?? You can if you want, I guess.

I think I mentioned before that I had the same 'excuse' for dismissal charged against me. I asked "Who?" The response; "A parent." I asked more clearly; "Which one of my student's? What class? What time??" The management said it wasn't any of my business!

Every class I taught for the next week I asked all of my students if they thought I was fun, did they learn from me, were their parents upset with me? Would they be upset if I was fired, because that is what was happening.
There was no complaint, and I had the manager come into 2 classes to listen to my students. Then I asked again who complained about me - infront of my class! It didn't help me look valuable to the manager, but the students who were willing to change locations if I got fired certainly were. 8 students discussed it with their parents at home, and said they would go to a different hakwon if I was fired. They were older kid's, and spoke English very well. They knew what was happening to me, and they understood what they were saying.

If your students like you, get them involved. Ask them directly. Find out if there is an actual complaint, or if the owner simply want's to buy a few cases of Scotch for his liquor cabinet.

I never liked 'every' teacher I had while I was going to school, and I don't know anyone who ever has. It's life. Furthermore; I don't like every student that attends my hakwon. They aren't all angels.

Find out the truth of the matter before you accept this dismissal. He/she wants to fire you for that reason? Prove that reason. It isn't that difficult. If 'a' mother complained she must have a name and a phone number...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> FAQ All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International