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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: Give the boy some credit. |
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Well, Bush finally came out with a plan, or at least half a plan for reforming Social Security last night. If you missed it, he suggested reducing the benefits for the wealthy but promised to guarantee benefits to the poor.
I don't think it's a good idea. It turns Social Security into a welfare program and those are not popular.
But at least the conversation has started. And that's a good thing. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I recently read that Social Security has a very large surplus of money sitting in it and it's not an issue to have to reform it now. Bush is making it an issue as he needs a presidential "legacy" item to point to for posterity, as I imagine the invasion of Iraq isn't a shining example. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| I recently read that Social Security has a very large surplus of money sitting in it and it's not an issue to have to reform it now. Bush is making it an issue as he needs a presidential "legacy" item to point to for posterity, as I imagine the invasion of Iraq isn't a shining example. |
I doubt it is for posterity- it is more like another way to help his buddies. He doesn't have the attention span to worry about posterity. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, Social Security is not like a giant bank account. The money that Desultude and I paid into it when we were fresh out of college hasn't just been sitting there. That money went to pay for our grandparents' retirement. When we were in our 30's our contributions went to our parents.
There was a huge surplus going in because the Boomers far outnumbered the previous two generations. But that surplus didn't accumulate. Reagan in particular took that money and quadrupled the national debt. The other presidents/Congresses did the same.
What is in the Social Security fund is an enormous pile of IOUs.
Bush and Co. (conservative Republicans) have objected to the whole program since it was instituted 70 years ago. They used to openly talk about abolishing it. I haven't heard them say that lately, but it used to be common. Social Security destroys 'self-reliance', don't you know.
The system does need reform in the sense that even the IOUs will run out somewhere around 2050.
The only real possibilities are to raise taxes or cut benefits. The GOP won't raise taxes and the Dems refuse to cut benefits. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Just to keep things in perspective:
I graduated high school when the minimum wage was $1.40. I was lucky and got about $3.25 an hour at my summer job.
Compare that to the cost of a day in the hospital these days. What is the cost of one aspirin? Isn't it around $5.00? A gallon of gas is above $2.00, up from 50 cents. A can of pop is a dollar or more. |
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funplanet
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Location: The new Bucheon!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:36 am Post subject: |
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even Roosevelt suggested that SS was not meant to be "permanent." I want a choice where my money goes, what is so wrong with that? if you are too stupid to educate yourself financially then fine, let the gov baby sit you...me, it's my money first and foremost therefore I should have a say what to do with it...
liberals believe the money you earn belongs to the gov...everyone else who has half a brain and can think KNOWS it is their money...you earned it, not the gov |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| funplanet wrote: |
| liberals believe the money you earn belongs to the gov... |
Can you provide a quote or some statistics for that? |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Double Post
Last edited by wannago on Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| He doesn't have the attention span to worry about posterity. |
Can you provide a quote or some statistics for that? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
even Roosevelt suggested that SS was not meant to be "permanent." I want a choice where my money goes, what is so wrong with that? if you are too stupid to educate yourself financially then fine, let the gov baby sit you...me, it's my money first and foremost therefore I should have a say what to do with it...
liberals believe the money you earn belongs to the gov...everyone else who has half a brain and can think KNOWS it is their money...you earned it, not the gov |
AHA! So it's my money, eh?
WOW, I didn't realize that!
In that case, our defense spending is ludicrous. Let's cut it in half. Anyone who disagrees can buy a high-powered sniper-rifle, plant it on top of their house, and defend themselves. You don't need the government to baby-sit you, right?
Forget the WTC, get a 50 calibre machine gun and shoot down hi-jacked jets before they hit your house. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
desultude wrote:
He doesn't have the attention span to worry about posterity.
Can you provide a quote or some statistics for that? |
See deficit spending. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-Ta Boy wrote: |
Well, Bush finally came out with a plan, or at least half a plan for reforming Social Security last night. If you missed it, he suggested reducing the benefits for the wealthy but promised to guarantee benefits to the poor.
I don't think it's a good idea. It turns Social Security into a welfare program and those are not popular.
But at least the conversation has started. And that's a good thing. |
I agree that it's good that the conversation has started. I think social security is necessary, but am not a huge fan of it. My parents right now are saving for their retirement on their own savings (along with some help from 401ks) and they may not need to take out checks (although my dad says that he's paid so much into it he certainly will). It's my understanding that the government can take away social security savings at any time by congressional act, it's not a judicial matter (don't want to look this up right now). So in addition to the OP's reservations about it being a welfare program, I have my own.
However, there are people out there who cannot save, but still work hard during their lives and deserve to have some dignity in old age. For these people the system needs to stay afloat. And, as a welfare and tax initiative, the rich will pay a little more and the poor will get a little more on the whole, and I think that that's more often a positive thing than not. |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| desultude wrote: |
| He doesn't have the attention span to worry about posterity. |
Can you provide a quote or some statistics for that? |
I agree, he's thinking of the future all right:
"Let me put it to you bluntly. In a changing world, we want more people to have control over your own life."
�George W. Bush, Annandale, Va, Aug. 9, 2004
Lovely slip you have there Mr. President. An original Freudian, you say?
Last edited by Blind Willie on Sun May 01, 2005 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Blind Willie wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| desultude wrote: |
| He doesn't have the attention span to worry about posterity. |
Can you provide a quote or some statistics for that? |
I agree, he's thinking of the future all right:
"There's not going to be enough people in the system to take advantage of people like me."
?On the coming Social Security crisis; Wilton, Conn.; June 9, 2000
"Let me put it to you bluntly. In a changing world, we want more people to have control over your own life."
뾉eorge W. Bush, Annandale, Va, Aug. 9, 2004
Lovely slip you have there Mr. President. An original Freudian, you say? |
I don't believe you. Links please. |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Washington Post good enough for you?
No, of course not. It's not a Republican propaganda rag. |
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