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Parents of dual-citizen minors - heads up re: military
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Bozo Yoroshiku



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Outside ???'s house with a pair of binoculars

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="FUBAR"]
fidel wrote:
I am saying that a Citizen of a country should not be able to renounce their citizenship of a country, solely to shirk their military obligation, and then expect to return to said country.

I agree with this psot (Yu Seung-joon notwithstanding).

As an aside, the minister (or whatever) that proposed this new law has said he will soon be proposing another one to treat all dual-citizen Koreans who renounce their Korean citizenship as foreigners. It's unclear what priveleges they will lose in this case.


--boz
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rok_the-boat



Joined: 24 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At present one in this position has to choose his nationality in his late teens. However, if this law comes into effect, one would not be able to choose his nationality until a max of age 32 or so (I think), by which time they have to enter military service, which would mean that many would be of dual nationality for a much longer time.

The real crux of the matter is just who is included. Obviously, the target is those Koreans who go oversea solely to have kids to avoid military service. However, my son was born in Korea to a Korean mother. I have a non-Korean friend who has a son born to a Korean mother outside of Korea. Methinks the law is an ass and some people will be caught in the net unawares.

I am all for people fullfilling their responsibilities as citizens, but when my son was born the law was what it was and I registered him as a Korean knowing what the law was - he could choose his nationality - his choice. Now they are changing it and I don't trust the common sense of a poloitician one iota.

As someone pointed out above, after completing military service they will be forced to choose one nationality. So, no doubt many willl chose to be Kroean, but some people will renounce their Korean citizenship - rather daft if you think about it.

If dual nationality were recognised after completing military serve I might even recommend my half-blood son to do it ...
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fidel



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an update, my wife has been phoning the Ministry of Justice and immigration to get some answers but...all lines are continually engaged, and have been for days! According to news reports on TV, Koreans are lining up to renounce their kids Korean citizenship, and obviously there is a mad rush to get out before D-Day.
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skindleshanks



Joined: 10 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:39 am    Post subject: The value of Korean citizenship has taken a downward turn... Reply with quote

I'm a Canadian-American and my one-year-old son is half Korean, and we chose to put him on the family registry here. I want him to be able to choose for himself whether he wants to give up three years of his life to go and learn how to kill commies so that his seniors in the marines can make him drop and do a hundred whenever and wherever they might meet for the rest of his life, or to stick to his Mennonite rooots in Canada, or sign up for the US military or wherever else he wants to be.

I'd like it to be up to him, but it seems that if the law is amended to include dual nationals, I'm going to be forced to make a quick decision before he even learns to talk. The way I see it, any Korean that looks at him (even now) sees a foreigner, so he has little to gain by doing his nationalistic duty, and may even be subjected to torture due to his "impurity". What parent would choose that?

I'd like to confirm whether in fact the law does affect children of mixed race. However, all the information lines for foreigners or Koreans are busy or off the hook (more likely), and my wife can't seem to get answers anywhere online or from the provincial offices.

Anybody know?
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Jeff's Academy



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: Jeju Island

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update.

Have found the final version of the amendment. It is written in language seemingly including only children with dual nationality born outside of Korea. As mentioned in my original post, we did speak with someone at the moj when we first heard about this. He said that the amendment didn't affect our children. He sounded quite certain. He also said he couldn't direct us to the language of the amendment. We've since found that through other avenues and it seems to concur with him.

Convinced? Not entirely. Still trying to get a complete answer exhibiting where it shows our children are not affected by the change in law. But from all we've seen, all things lean toward it not affecting children with dual citizenship born in Korea.

To find the law: Go to :

http://search.assembly.go.kr:8080/law/lawindex_gate.jsp?starget=presentlaw%2Flaw_search.jsp&plawradio=title&querytext=%B1%B9%C0%FB&searchAbcLaw

Then click ������, it will go to ������ and click ��������ɻ翬��on the left of the same page.

On the page of ������ and ��������ɻ翬��, you should click 2005-05-04�κа���
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fidel



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MOJ finally answered their phones today and informed us categorically that the changes DON"T apply to children born in Korea to mixed parentage families.

I still want written confirmation from them though, as I have found in my experience that Korean beauracrats often spread misinformation.
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rok_the-boat



Joined: 24 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You better believe it - misinformation is the rule. They are probably misinforming on purpose so we foreingers with kids here don't all go rushing to the immigration to cancel our kids' nationalities and embarass them further.
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steroidmaximus



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200505/kt2005051117250611950.htm

Quote:
``I'll initiate another bill to treat children who give up Korean nationality as foreigners and to deprive them of rights to have education and medical insurance in Korea,'' he added


DaeHanmingook Rolling Eyes

Fubar wrote:
Quote:
I also feel that the person should not be allowed back into the country until he fulfills his military commitment as well. I mean, why should a person be exempt from the service? Because one of his parents have white skin and another citizenship? I hope the government closes all the loopholes that allow the people to dodge out on their service.


you're an ill-informed ass. Are you Korean? If not, how long have you been in Korea? How long will you stay? What type of public service are YOU going to perform?
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taegu girl



Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff's Academy,
So does this mean that my son is affected since he was born outside of Korea and has dual citizenship??? I will have to have hubby look at the website you gave and maybe give the embassy a call. We wanted the dual citizenship because our son is entitled to it and it would make it easier for extended summer vacations or if we ever decided to move back to Korea again. Actually i will probably have my MIL and FIL look into the matter as well since they live in Korea. THanks.
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tzechuk



Joined: 20 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steroidmaximus wrote:
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200505/kt2005051117250611950.htm

Quote:
``I'll initiate another bill to treat children who give up Korean nationality as foreigners and to deprive them of rights to have education and medical insurance in Korea,'' he added


DaeHanmingook Rolling Eyes


But foreigners have a right to these things.... we can send our kids to school and I am on my husband's health insurance... how exactly are they taking these rights away? Confused
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steroidmaximus



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, by law foreigners have the right to education and health insurance. My point was this representative of the people didn't know it, as well as not knowing what many people really think of their Korean citizenship.
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the funniest part of this article was the fact that if "Koreans give up their citizenship, they will be treated like foreigners!" Laughing

I got a big laugh out of THAT one!!!
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff's Academy wrote:
Update.

Have found the final version of the amendment. It is written in language seemingly including only children with dual nationality born outside of Korea. As mentioned in my original post, we did speak with someone at the moj when we first heard about this. He said that the amendment didn't affect our children. He sounded quite certain. He also said he couldn't direct us to the language of the amendment. We've since found that through other avenues and it seems to concur with him.

Convinced? Not entirely. Still trying to get a complete answer exhibiting where it shows our children are not affected by the change in law. But from all we've seen, all things lean toward it not affecting children with dual citizenship born in Korea.

To find the law: Go to :

http://search.assembly.go.kr:8080/law/lawindex_gate.jsp?starget=presentlaw%2Flaw_search.jsp&plawradio=title&querytext=%B1%B9%C0%FB&searchAbcLaw

Then click ������, it will go to ������ and click ��������ɻ翬��on the left of the same page.

On the page of ������ and ��������ɻ翬��, you should click 2005-05-04�κа���


Look, it's quite simple...it's never going to happen to children of foreigners. It's bad enough that attempting to force Koreans with dual-citizenship born of Korean citizens into the army will damage the Korean government's relations with some foreign nations. Can you imagine the diplomatic stink it would cause if, on top of that, kids with one foreign parent would be forced to serve in the Korean army? I'm sure the Korean government is all too aware of this.

Besides, the Korean government is passing a totally pointless law which will damage its relations with foreign countries. It's unfortunate, since the ones who will keep their citizenship long enough to serve in the Korean army would have done so otherwise. For the rest, whether people like it or not, their foreign citizenship is their birthright.
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Jeff's Academy



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: Jeju Island

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

``I'll initiate another bill to treat children who give up Korean nationality as foreigners and to deprive them of rights to have education and medical insurance in Korea,'' he added

Yeah, the guy doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. What he probably means is that they won't get advantages given to foreigners with Korean heritage.

From the moj website re: F-4 visas:

* Report of Stay by Overseas Korean Residents in Korea
An act for overseas Korean residents has been enacted to promote their legal status in
Korea. If they report their stay to the immigration office, they will be treated better than
other foreigners in some respects such as travel, stay, working activity, real estate
transactions, and financial transactions, etc.

An overseas Korean includes both a Korean who lives in a foreign country and who
obtained a foreign citizenship. Here, a korean who lives in a foreign country can be
divided into 3 groups: etc, etc etc...

Those are the rights I assume he is talking about taking away.
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dg611



Joined: 11 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

few things to add here:
1. I am happy to hear that it will not effect my unborn son(if that is what we have) Though laws change all the time, it is still a relief. WHY?
2. Service in the Korean military is not an exercise in patriotism, it is a requirement that the vast majority of Korean men wish they could get out of with no ill effects. Men who do not serve in the military are often passed over for jobs and promotions at jobs...they are discriminated against in other subtle ways in Korean society....even if their reasons for being excluded were beyond their control like height or weight or some physical deformity...even a childhood accident that leaves a large visible scar but no handicap can exclude someone from service...they still are discriminated against. Senior soldiers are often barbarously cruel to their juniors and on occiasion death has been the result.
3. Korean soldiers receive virtually no pay and very little leave for their 2 1/2 to 3 year service. This is totally counter to what they see in the US military...who have educational opportunities, decent pay and benefits package. In the US military, many get more out of it than when they came in. In the Korean military, much is lost. In the prime of their lives they are taken away from school, study and society forced into indentured servitude for little or no remuneration...Even those drafted in the US military in WWII and Vietnam got a better set of benifits than the Korean soldier-slave.
4. If there is a Korean out there reading this that can honestly say good things about their 3 years of conscription...I welcome the comments. Because most of the boys I met who came back were glad to be done so they can get on with their lives.
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