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Anti-American Hatred in London
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Last Temptation of Christ


bigverne,

Have you ever read it? Just curious.


I did. I was excited when they made a movie of it. I really looked forward to watching it. But it was banned in Omaha. I had to wait till I got to South Korea, this bastion of liberal free-thinking, before I could see it. I was disappointed.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
The Last Temptation of Christ


bigverne,

Have you ever read it? Just curious.


I did. I was excited when they made a movie of it. I really looked forward to watching it. But it was banned in Omaha. I had to wait till I got to South Korea, this bastion of liberal free-thinking, before I could see it. I was disappointed.


I was also looking forward to seeing it, but they banned it where I was living at the time. Queensland, Australia. I never thought I'd find it in Korea, but since reading your post just now, I'm going to look.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_bird,

The book is FAR, FAR better than the movie. Kyobo had it at one time. (Most of Kazanzaki's books are good. I'd also recommend Report to Greco.)
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Hmmm, I guess you're right. Just like in the 1930's Nazism was in effect in only a few countries. Glad we had nothing to fear then, except fearmongers and hatemongers like FDR and Winston Churchill.



It isn't so much that he lumps all Moslems together and then compares them to Nazism that disturbs me. It's that he compares himself to FDR and Churchill. That's scary.


You mean the guy who wrote this?

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
.. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

-Winston Churchill,
The River War
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously a man ahead of his time.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'The absurd theology of an immoral bedouin'. (Kemal Ataturk)
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTOH wrote:
Well, for all intents and purposes, Socrates IS Plato, in that the most influential things that Socrates is alleged to have said are what is recorded in Plato's dialogues.


Socrates is often Plato's hero in his dialogues, but he IS not Plato. Also, the dialogues are less a historical account of Socrates than crafted dialogues wherein Socrates is the hero. Plato's dialogues are far too fashioned, I'd even say far too perfect, to possibly be any sort of historical account.
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sportsguy35



Joined: 27 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, heres my question. If all christians were to do what they are called to do, and that is love other people. Things would be pretty simple. We were given two commands, Love God and love others. What we have done with that is absolutely sick. We aren't called to love other christians and hate those that don't believe what we do. Love everyone, isn't easy, but sure does make you and the world around you feel better. Not so much a question I guess...
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We were given two commands, Love God and love others


Rather a simplification of Christianity don't you think.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You mean the guy who wrote this?



I thought you were comparing yourself to the Churchill who warned about the Nazis in the early 30's. Silly me. You are comparing yourself to Churchill the Colonialist. Not his finest hour. And not what he's admired for.

But on that topic, anyone noticed that peculiar zig-zag in Jordan's eastern border? I read once that Winny did it. He was drunk when he was drawing the map. Probably not true, but a cute story.
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
'The absurd theology of an immoral bedouin'. (Kemal Ataturk)


Quality surname. It sounds like someone is congratulating him for being Turkish.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quality surname. It sounds like someone is congratulating him for being Turkish.


Yeah, he gave it to himself. Also, popular with communist leaders like Stalin, and Lenin. Doesn't seem to work so well with English names.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He was drunk when he was drawing the map.


Bearing in mind that Churchill was often lashed, this could well be true.

There is a famous story about Churchill that you might have heard but is worth repeating.

Churchill is walking along one of the corridors in the Houses of Parliament after one two many whiskies. A female MP (can't remember her name) stops Churchill and looks at him in disgust.

'Winston, you're drunk!'

'And you my dear are ugly,.... but in the morning I shall be sober!'
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
OTOH wrote:
Well, for all intents and purposes, Socrates IS Plato, in that the most influential things that Socrates is alleged to have said are what is recorded in Plato's dialogues.


Socrates is often Plato's hero in his dialogues, but he IS not Plato. Also, the dialogues are less a historical account of Socrates than crafted dialogues wherein Socrates is the hero. Plato's dialogues are far too fashioned, I'd even say far too perfect, to possibly be any sort of historical account.


Yes, but I was responding to a poster who specualted on a religion derived from the philosophyof Socrates and Plato. My point was that the only "Socratic" philosophy that most scholars bother studying in any depth is that of the character Socrates in Plato's dialogues. So saying "Socrates and Plato" is a little like saying "Jesus and the New Testament".

But if, in fact, Xenophon's account contains enough Socratic philosophy to base a religious system upon, then I will happily stand corrected.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Quote:
We were given two commands, Love God and love others


Rather a simplification of Christianity don't you think.


How about this proverb coined by a modern religious scholar:

Kill them all and let God sort out the rest.

Rome fell with the advent of Christianity. Would it have been in their better interest if they had continued feeding them to the lions?

Let's get back to the original topic here. We have a bunch of people who generally despise Europe either for their socialism or their refusal to accept bogus rationale for the invasion of Iraq who are suddenly all worried about Europe because of the "Muslim menace". This because of a few whackos chanting in London.

What if those whacko-types, whose freedom of speech allows them to say what they want, move to America and buy boatloads of assault weapons and high-powered sniper rifles to further back up their "aims"? Of course, on the surface, their aims would just be that they needed said arsenal for squirrel hunting. And, woohoo, if you don't like it, you can pry the guns from their "cold, dead hands".

But they're far from all whackos. Considering their global demographics, there are just "a few bad apples".

And such "apples" bare a distinct similarity to the militant Westerners trying to characterize a broad, diverse religion of millions as a threat. Both share the common qualities of intolerance and xenophobia.

So, how do you like them apples?
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