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Is this what we have become?

 
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject: Is this what we have become? Reply with quote

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1489147,00.html


Dilawar was a taxi driver who appears to have driven past a US military base soon after a rocket attack. Habibullah was handed over to the US by an Afghan warlord, and was identified as the brother of a Taliban commander. Both men were seized in late 2002, interrogated, beaten and killed in a hangar used for holding detainees who were being vetted for dispatch to Guantánamo Bay.

The two were chained to the ceilings of their cells for days at a time and beaten on the legs. They had been subjected to a blow known as the "common peroneal strike", aimed at a point just below the knee and intended to disable. Coroners in the Habibullah case said his legs "had basically been pulpified" and looked as though they had been run over by a bus.

Last October, the army's criminal investigation com mand found probable cause to charge 27 officers and enlisted soldiers with offences ranging from dereliction of duty to maiming and involuntary manslaughter in the Dilawar case. Charges were also recommended against 15 of them for the Habibullah case.

Only seven soldiers have been charged, all junior ranks.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=640070

The report reveals that Dilawar, a taxi driver, died despite the fact that most of the interrogators were convinced he was innocent.
Shocked Shocked Shocked



He screamed out, 'Allah! Allah! Allah!' and my first reaction was that he was crying out to his God," Spc Jones said. "Everybody heard him cry out and thought it was funny." The report says it became a running joke and prison guards kicked Dilawar just to hear him scream "Allah". "It went on over a 24-hour period, and I would think that it was over 100 strikes," he said.

During an interrogation, the severely injured Dilawar begged a translator to get him a doctor. The translator says he told the interrogators, but one replied: "He's OK. He's just trying to get out of his restraints."

An autopsy found that Dilawar died of heart failure caused by "blunt force injuries to the lower extremities". The coroner, Lieutenant-Colonel Elizabeth Rouse, told a pre-trial hearing that his legs "had basically been pulpified ... I've seen similar injuries in an individual run over by a bus."

Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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R. S. Refugee



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read that article somewhere else and I'm so numbed by the incessant hatred and vilification of Muslims so prevalent on this board (and other places) -- y'know, they're the savages, uncivilized, cruel, and a menace, while we are the "good guys," pure, noble, and "civilized" -- that I didn't even think to post it, because it would touch none of the haters here, but most likely just bring more pleasure to their "civilized" hearts hearing about it.

One of them will probably respond to your post as they did to mine when I posted something about the savagery that our "civilized" culture has brought to bear on innocent people simply because of their religious/cultural background, "Please, spare me your angst, fella," he replied.

Thanks for posting it anyway.

Oh, in answer to your question, regretably the answer seems to be, "Yes."


Last edited by R. S. Refugee on Sun May 22, 2005 9:25 am; edited 2 times in total
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the OP and I felt sick. Sad

I don't know how anyone could have mocked Darwin for pointing out how much we resembled apes. Savage apes at that.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a rather long article in the NYTimes last Friday :

In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths

Specialist Damien M. Corsetti, a tall, bearded interrogator sometimes called "Monster" -he had the nickname tattooed in Italian across his stomach, other soldiers said - was often chosen to intimidate new detainees. Specialist Corsetti, they said, would glower and yell at the arrivals as they stood chained to an overhead pole or lay face down on the floor of a holding room. (A military police K-9 unit often brought growling dogs to walk among the new prisoners for similar effect, documents show.)

"The other interrogators would use his reputation," said one interrogator, Specialist Eric H. Barclais. "They would tell the detainee, 'If you don't cooperate, we'll have to get Monster, and he won't be as nice.' " Another soldier told investigators that Sergeant Loring lightheartedly referred to Specialist Corsetti, then 23, as "the King of Torture."

A Saudi detainee who was interviewed by Army investigators last June at Guantánamo said Specialist Corsetti had pulled out his *beep* during an interrogation at Bagram, held it against the prisoner's face and threatened to rape him, excerpts from the man's statement show.

Last fall, the investigators cited probable cause to charge Specialist Corsetti with assault, maltreatment of a prisoner and indecent acts in the incident; he has not been charged.
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry for America that it has come to this. Crying or Very sad

But I am not surprised in the least. Gestapo Officers, tactics and methodology were not destroyed after WW2 as they should have been, but were transfered by US military personnel to South America to help train anti communist militaries in South America. It has been previously noted that some training was even given to US personnel.

Why should we be surprised that Gestapo tactics still exist today, when they weren't destroyed at the proper time. Rolling Eyes
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dulouz



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We didn't become this, we always were like this. It was just a matter of pushing it off. The manner of humanity we afforded was the kind we could afford but these asymmetrical wars are expensive in many ways. It was only a matter of time before things like this emerged. We don't want to be in Afghansitan this fashion or any place else in a similar situation for that matter but we have a very serious and I'm afraid to say for all real reasons an eternal problem. The other options are massive bombing and a very destructive war. Choose your poison.

I'm also cynical enough to say that this manner of behavior is permissible under multiculturalism. Many many asylum seekers arrive at our shores from many countries, tell horror stories of this nature and then are allowed asylum. Most of the critisism is levied against the West for not accepting the applicants while the generating countries recieve scarcely a complaint or sanction. Even blessed Thailand is still sending out refugees and we often talk about how cute the Thais are and what a great place Thailand is.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall that massive bombing has already taken place. This however seems completely unnecessary and out of place.

The only things this incident and others like it serve are to further stoke the fires of anti-American hatred, give even more incentive to would be jihadists, destroy any and all hope of achieving a lasting peace in the region............... and on and on.

It seems to me it was just about THE WORST F*************G THING THEY COULD HAVE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is, unless your goals are to further provoke violence and terrorist acts in the region.
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guangho



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Mrs. Turham in Olathe, Kansas:

"Another raghead?" (Yawn.)
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