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Another liberal sees the light!
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is the difference between Al Franken , and David Corn ( liberals who deep down love America) and the feverish types at Counterpunch ( For the most part a group of extremists who hate the US and support anyone who is against it. )
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guangho wrote:
He is right.


As opposed to left? Razz
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:08 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

I don't think that those at Counterpunch hate America.

Nor does Chomsky.

It's really quite the opposite.

They respect America in a way that George Bush doesn't.

Court-packing is un-American.

Lying to justify invasion is un-American.

And they dished it out as hard to Clinton as they did Bush.

See Counterpunch coverage of Kosovo.

They are quite simply concerned about principles whereas the mainstream is concerned about results.

That is more a flaw in the mainstream than it is them being subversive or extremist.

Ethics should be ethics, not something determined by what's popular.

And everyone should be subject to the same rules.

There is nothing anti-American about such a philosophy.
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wannago



Joined: 16 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

Nowhere Man wrote:
I don't think that those at Counterpunch hate America.

Nor does Chomsky.

It's really quite the opposite.

They respect America in a way that George Bush doesn't.


But they do hate Americans. Or, at the very least, think they are the most ignorant scum to walk the earth.

Nowhere Man wrote:
Court-packing is un-American.


So, for the record, do you think FDR was un-American?

Nowhere Man wrote:
Lying to justify invasion is un-American.


I think your definition of lying is different than most people's. Following bad intelligence may be stupid but it's not lying.


Nowhere Man wrote:
They are quite simply concerned about principles whereas the mainstream is concerned about results.

That is more a flaw in the mainstream than it is them being subversive or extremist.


I'm sorry, but this is laughable. It is about ideology with this "media" outlet. How dare that monkey Bush do something contrary to what the Left believes is just and right. The only principles they care about are their own.

Nowhere Man wrote:
Ethics should be ethics, not something determined by what's popular.

And everyone should be subject to the same rules.

There is nothing anti-American about such a philosophy.


I would agree with you here. And this is where my uneasiness with the current administration lies. However, the previous administration was, in NO WAY, any better.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They respect America in a way that George Bush doesn't.

Court-packing is un-American.

Lying to justify invasion is un-American.

And they dished it out as hard to Clinton as they did Bush.

See Counterpunch coverage of Kosovo.


You maybe right on those things but just cause counterpunch raises those issues doesn't mean they love America , it is just their way of bashing the US.

Counterpunch even supports the insurgents.

http://www.counterpunch.org/smith01212005.html
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Apple Scruff



Joined: 29 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your "Liberals hate America" rhetoric, and I raise you a "Conservatives love America so much they can't help bending it over and fucking it in the ass."
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You didn't read the post Apple. I said that liberals deep down love America.

but those at Counterpunch aren't liberals - nor do they love America.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Others have called you on your use of "the left" so I won't do so again.


So you're just reminding me here, then, eh? All I meant by 'the Left' was the definition layed down by the author of the commentary, the Left being distinct from Progressives who may lie on the Left/Libertarian wing of the political spectrum.
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hypnotist



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Quote:
Others have called you on your use of "the left" so I won't do so again.


So you're just reminding me here, then, eh? All I meant by 'the Left' was the definition layed down by the author of the commentary, the Left being distinct from Progressives who may lie on the Left/Libertarian wing of the political spectrum.


Basically yes - I'd done my ranting about it earlier on in the thread.

The definition put forward by the author is much narrower than he seems to realise.

(Your use of "Left/Libertarian" also rankles with me. The average libertarian is against almost everything I stand for. I don't feel like I'm on the same side as them at all. The conflation of the two distinct political viewpoints into one 'side' seems to be a peculiarly American position, if you don't mind me saying...)
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant Left/Libertarian in terms of a double axis political spectrum. This is where Left to Right forms one axis, and Authoritarian to Libertarian forms another axis. I am not referring to the common American label of Libertarian which would fit into Right/Libertarian on this axis, as opposed to Left/Libertarian.
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hypnotist



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, ok. The problems of labels, eh Smile

I don't know, I don't see that Libertarians on the left (such as they are) share particularly much with Libertarians on the right. It's interesting that we see the political spectrum and politics in general in such staggeringly different terms - but then, that's just another part of what makes debating politics satisfying, I guess.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 3:03 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Quote:
Nowhere Man wrote:
I don't think that those at Counterpunch hate America.

Nor does Chomsky.

It's really quite the opposite.

They respect America in a way that George Bush doesn't.


But they do hate Americans. Or, at the very least, think they are the most ignorant scum to walk the earth.


That's your own ridiculous interpretation.


Quote:
Nowhere Man wrote:
Court-packing is un-American.


So, for the record, do you think FDR was un-American?


In his attempt to pack courts, yes.

Quote:
Nowhere Man wrote:
Lying to justify invasion is un-American.


I think your definition of lying is different than most people's. Following bad intelligence may be stupid but it's not lying.


PK. Fair enough. I have no proof of a lie. You have no proof that the editors of Counterpunch and Chomsky hate America.


Quote:
Nowhere Man wrote:
They are quite simply concerned about principles whereas the mainstream is concerned about results.

That is more a flaw in the mainstream than it is them being subversive or extremist.


I'm sorry, but this is laughable. It is about ideology with this "media" outlet. How dare that monkey Bush do something contrary to what the Left believes is just and right. The only principles they care about are their own.


To my knowledge, Counterpunch doesn't report news, per se. Its intent is to analyze and discuss. The content is by and large editorial in nature.

They are the same as the National Review and the Weekly Standard, except the latter are far more likely to toe party lines.

Quote:
Nowhere Man wrote:
Ethics should be ethics, not something determined by what's popular.

And everyone should be subject to the same rules.

There is nothing anti-American about such a philosophy.


I would agree with you here. And this is where my uneasiness with the current administration lies. However, the previous administration was, in NO WAY, any better.


NO WAY? Torture. Torture. Torture.
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