Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

U.S. warns countries not to aid Zarqawi
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: U.S. warns countries not to aid Zarqawi Reply with quote

Quote:
U.S. warns countries not to aid Zarqawi
By David Stout The New York Times

THURSDAY, JUNE 2, 2005


WASHINGTON Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warned Iraq's neighbors on Wednesday that any country offering aid to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq, would be guilty of helping someone "with blood on his hands."

In a news briefing at which he vigorously defended U.S. policy in Iraq and American treatment of detainees, Rumsfeld said Zarqawi, who was reported to have been wounded recently, was probably in Iraq.

"Were a neighboring country to take him in and provide medical assistance or haven for him, they obviously would be associating themselves with a major linkage in the Al Qaeda network," Rumsfeld said, in what seemed to be a veiled threat to Syria.

He did not mention Syria by name, but the Bush administration has complained bitterly that Syria is not doing enough to stop men and money from flowing into Iraq to aid the insurgency there.

Moreover, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, said Zarqawi, who is believed to have been wounded recently, is probably "in western Iraq, near the Syrian border."

Iraq borders Syria, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

The Sunday Times of London, citing an insurgent commander it did not name, said this week that Zarqawi might have sought medical attention in Iran. Tehran denied the report.

When asked if there would be consequences for any country aiding Zarqawi, a Jordanian who is believed to be behind numerous kidnappings and beheadings in Iraq, Rumsfeld replied somewhat obliquely.

"Oh, I think what I said was fairly clear," he said, adding that any country providing medical aid or haven "to a leading terrorist" would be contributing to the deaths of many people. "And that's something that people would want to take note of."

The White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, refused to go beyond Rumsfeld's remarks after being asked whether the Bush administration believed Syria was aiding Zarqawi. "We continue to have concerns when it comes to Syria, and Syria allowing its territory to be used by those who seek to carry out attacks inside Iraq, and we've expressed those concerns," McClellan said.

Rumsfeld and Myers wholeheartedly defended the conduct of American troops in Iraq, and they insisted that detainees there, as well as at the Guantánamo Bay naval base in Cuba, were being well treated on the whole, despite occasional abuses.

To compare the detention unit at Guantánamo Bay to the Soviet-era gulag, as the rights group Amnesty International recently did, is "reprehensible" and "cannot be excused," Rumsfeld said.

The secretary said all instances of prisoner abuse had been investigated and prosecuted aggressively, and that some major newspapers were guilty of "repeating the same erroneous assertions and recycling the same stories" about abuse of prisoners. He said nearly all the 68,000 detainees who have been in custody since the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, have nothing to complain about.




http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/02/news/iraq.php#


How dare the US demand such. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:31 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you realize you clipboarded this article into small-text quotes FOUR times ... it's called an "edit" function. Go ahead and use it ...

As for your thesis, are you suggesting that the US ought to begin incursions into Syria to seek out ONE man, when there is little or no evidence he is being harbored there? Because this does seem to be the subtext of what Rumsfeld is saying. Do you think this is wise? Do you think the US can afford one more country at this time?

Forget about the morality at the moment, only limp-wristed liberals think America needs to behave in ways that we can account for ... do you think this kind of bullying rhetoric reflects wise foreign policy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
Did you realize you clipboarded this article into small-text quotes FOUR times ... it's called an "edit" function. Go ahead and use it ...

As for your thesis, are you suggesting that the US ought to begin incursions into Syria to seek out ONE man, when there is little or no evidence he is being harbored there? Because this does seem to be the subtext of what Rumsfeld is saying. Do you think this is wise? Do you think the US can afford one more country at this time?

Forget about the morality at the moment, only limp-wristed liberals think America needs to behave in ways that we can account for ... do you think this kind of bullying rhetoric reflects wise foreign policy?



No more 9-11's. If they want their war then deserve whatever the US can come up with.

If the US find out that he is in another country then the US should go after him w/ airpower.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
No more 9-11's. If they want their war then deserve whatever the US can come up with.

If the US find out that he is in another country then the US should go after him w/ airpower.


Memory serves, and I'm lookin' right at exactly what I said, I asked you some serious questions about what a wise policy looks like. These were sincere questions that deserved a serious response ... and you give me slogans and soundbites.

You seem to feel that innocent people need to die as collateral damage in airstrikes to eliminate a single individual who really ought to be incarcerated and intgerrogated so we can determine the true facts of how many other pychos like are out there like and what they look like and where we can find them.

The death in battle of such a man as Zarqawi could possibly create a martyr that will spawn hundsreds or thousands more like him, but I don't think you care about that. The apprehension and trial of such a man will provide intelligence and a sense of demoralisation to those sick enough to follow him, but again, I don't think you care about that.

Even without either thing coming to pass, what effect does does Rumsfeld's public statements have on rank-and-file Syrians who might oppose tghe oppression going on from their own govt? Does it give them strength, or undercut their chances of prevailing by placing them - in the minds of other Syrians - on the side of a massive international power that has shown ruthless disregard for the sovreignty of other nations?

Once again, do you think what Rumsfeld is saying here reflects wise foreign policy?

Respond any way you like, but don't insult our intelligence again with the kind of vain posturing you just now displayed, because you are proving my case far better than I could ever do myself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You seem to feel that innocent people need to die as collateral damage in airstrikes to eliminate a single individual who really ought to be incarcerated and intgerrogated so we can determine the true facts of how many other pychos like are out there like and what they look like and where we can find them.





I don't think they should die, however I don't believe the US should back off either. All it take is for Bathists , Khomenists and those that follow Bin Laden to give up their war. And until they do the US should use hit them with everything it has.

The US should never , never back off or give in - ever






Quote:
The death in battle of such a man as Zarqawi could possibly create a martyr that will spawn hundsreds or thousands more like him, but I don't think you care about that. The apprehension and trial of such a man will provide intelligence and a sense of demoralisation to those sick enough to follow him, but again, I don't think you care about that.




70,000 trained in Al Qadia camps during the 1990s this was while the US protecting muslims, and trying to bring Israel and the Palestinian side together.

When Saddam, Khomeni, Assad or Bin Laden killed muslims no one rose up and no one went after them.


You see the main cause of terror in the mideast is that the regimes , the clerics (paid by the governments ) , the media and the elites are behind the hate. IF they are forced to stop so will the terror.



Quote:
Even without either thing coming to pass, what effect does does Rumsfeld's public statements have on rank-and-file Syrians who might oppose tghe oppression going on from their own govt? Does it give them strength, or undercut their chances of prevailing by placing them - in the minds of other Syrians - on the side of a massive international power that has shown ruthless disregard for the sovreignty of other nations?


Bob the US didn't even mention Syria or Iran by name.

Quote:
Rumsfeld did not specify consequences or name a country, but the warning appeared intended for Syria and also may have been aimed at Iran.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-rumsfeld2jun02,1,141782.story?coll=la-headlines-world

Syria is a police state there isn't any real opposition to speak of. Syria needs to get the message.

Quote:
Once again, do you think what Rumsfeld is saying here reflects wise foreign policy?


I think the US has done things the quiet way with Syria for a while. It didn't work.

Quote:
Respond any way you like, but don't insult our intelligence again with the kind of vain posturing you just now displayed, because you are proving my case far better than I could ever do myself


Chuckle , Chuckle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hypnotist



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

If the US find out that he is in another country then the US should go after him w/ airpower.


What if, by some freak coincidence, he (or one of the other AQ 'leadership') were to be in the US?

Go after them with airpower?

How about if they're in London? Or Berlin? Or Vancouver?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Quote:
The death in battle of such a man as Zarqawi could possibly create a martyr that will spawn hundsreds or thousands more like him, but I don't think you care about that. The apprehension and trial of such a man will provide intelligence and a sense of demoralisation to those sick enough to follow him, but again, I don't think you care about that.

70,000 trained in Al Qadia camps during the 1990s this was while the US protecting muslims, and trying to bring Israel and the Palestinian side together. (...)

I should know better by now. I ask for reasoned response to a serious question, ask twice for that instead of slogans and soundbites, and you mock all thinking people by doing exactly that.

I made it as habit a while ago to avoid any discussion topics that involve you precisely for this reason, and I don't know why I thought for a second that today would be different.

Most military guys I talk to have far worse things to say about Rumsfeld than I do, for instance that he talks big about supporting the troops but then sends them out without the materials they need to both fight and survive to come home later ... this article you show is more of the same empty gestures and big talk, this willingness to expand the war into new fronts when we are not secure where we are and are not likely to be - empty talk, bravado and irresponsible empty words, much like what we see from you.

You present this to us for duscussion but you avoid the central question and fail to give a direct answer : DO you think this is wise foreign policy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hypnotist wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

If the US find out that he is in another country then the US should go after him w/ airpower.


What if, by some freak coincidence, he (or one of the other AQ 'leadership') were to be in the US?

Go after them with airpower?

How about if they're in London? Or Berlin? Or Vancouver?


When they are being protected by the government?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I should know better by now. I ask for reasoned response to a serious question, ask twice for that instead of slogans and soundbites, and you mock all thinking people by doing exactly that.


Chuckle , Chuckle.


Quote:
I made it as habit a while ago to avoid any discussion topics that involve you precisely for this reason, and I don't know why I thought for a second that today would be different.


See above.
Quote:

Most military guys I talk to have far worse things to say about Rumsfeld than I do, for instance that he talks big about supporting the troops but then sends them out without the materials they need to both fight and survive to come home later ... this article you show is more of the same empty gestures and big talk, this willingness to expand the war into new fronts when we are not secure where we are and are not likely to be - empty talk, bravado and irresponsible empty words, much like what we see from you.


Well just tell other countries not to help Zaqari. If they do then in fact they are participating in the war against the US.

Quote:
You present this to us for duscussion but you avoid the central question and fail to give a direct answer : DO you think this is wise foreign policy?[/


Yes the US has done things the quite way and it didn't work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
hypnotist wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

If the US find out that he is in another country then the US should go after him w/ airpower.


What if, by some freak coincidence, he (or one of the other AQ 'leadership') were to be in the US?

Go after them with airpower?

How about if they're in London? Or Berlin? Or Vancouver?


When they are being protected by the government?

Do you have any kind of evidence to say that, or is it another delusional fantasy like the one you had recently that the Geneva Convention didn't exist during WW2?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

go tell us the Madrid train bombers are part of a dispute between Morooco and Spain. You fake peace activist.



anyway if Zaqair is being protected by a foreign govt then they US to use airpower to kill him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hypnotist



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
hypnotist wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

If the US find out that he is in another country then the US should go after him w/ airpower.


What if, by some freak coincidence, he (or one of the other AQ 'leadership') were to be in the US?

Go after them with airpower?

How about if they're in London? Or Berlin? Or Vancouver?


When they are being protected by the government?


What if, say, Babar Ahmed wins his appeal and is not extradited to America? Would you support sending in the warplanes to bomb his London home?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4554829.stm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
go tell us the Madrid train bombers are part of a dispute between Morooco and Spain. You fake peace activist.

I take it you admit to being delusional, then. Fine, just so we got that cleared up.

Do you really think a bombing campaign into Syria or Iran - again, to snuff ONE guy - is wise? Even if it results in the retaliation on US troops in Iraqs on the part of whichever country it is, widening the scope and tenor of the conflict from the damage we are seeing from a mere insurgency into actual state-to-state warfare? Do you think this is wise?

Because this does in fact seem to be what yuou are advocating.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I take it you admit to being delusional, then. Fine, just so we got that cleared up.


just like you thought Nazi germany observed the Geneva convention

Quote:
Do you really think a bombing campaign into Syria or Iran - again, to snuff ONE guy - is wise? Even if it results in the retaliation on US troops in Iraqs on the part of whichever country it is, widening the scope and tenor of the conflict from the damage we are seeing from a mere insurgency into actual state-to-state warfare? Do you think this is wise?

Because this does in fact seem to be what yuou are advocating.


If they are helping the insurgents then they are already going after US soldiers.

Get a clue Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Quote:
I take it you admit to being delusional, then. Fine, just so we got that cleared up.

just like you thought Nazi germany observed the Geneva convention

I said that they did so most of the time. Show me I'm wrong. I'm interested.

Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think a bombing campaign into Syria or Iran - again, to snuff ONE guy - is wise? Even if it results in the retaliation on US troops in Iraqs on the part of whichever country it is, widening the scope and tenor of the conflict from the damage we are seeing from a mere insurgency into actual state-to-state warfare? Do you think this is wise?

Because this does in fact seem to be what yuou are advocating.

If they are helping the insurgents then they are already going after US soldiers.

Get a clue Bob

And if Rummy and Condi says they are - which they haven't, I notice, only you seem to be doing that - then I think we should believe them, because both of those people turned out to be spot on correct about WMDs and Saddam's support for Al Queda and the 9/11 terrorists. That was sarcasm, you know.

The Bobster can't help but notice that you have not directly answered the question posed about whether the air strikes you suggest would actually wise policy, nor have you responded to hypnotoist's queries about whether you would suggest the same kind of bomb strike for a Western country if it was believed that they were harboring a terrorist - for instance if they simply refused to extradite one of their own citizens that might end up in Gitmo.

I don't think I'm the one lacking clues here, Joo. Use all the abusive language you like if you think that's the only way to address these issues. I think the route of personal attacks you enjoy engagiung tends to make you look poorly, and I won't be drawn into them any more, that's all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International