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And The Verdict on Wacko Jacko is....
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paji eh Wong wrote:
Big_Bird wrote:


What about Tyson. I presume you are talking about the rape case where he was convicted of raping a beauty pagent?


A whole pageant? Goddamn.


And if you were really on the ball you'd have noticed this mistake an' all:
Big_Bird wrote:

Bloody hell! That's inconclusive proof of consent?
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joe_doufu



Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never beleived the things they accuse Michael Jackson of. Michael is just weird, a freak, and because he's a freak people are ready and willing to believe any horrible thing that he's accused of. So, people let their kid hang out with him and then try to scam him for money and attention.

If Michael really wanted to molest a kid, he's got the money to go to a country where it doesn't cost so much and where you can bribe the authorities to make it legal. I'm sure he's not dumb enough to fool around with these American brats. He's just an easy target.
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batman



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Oh so close to where I want to be

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe_doufu wrote:

If Michael really wanted to molest a kid, he's got the money to go to a country where it doesn't cost so much and where you can bribe the authorities to make it legal. I'm sure he's not dumb enough to fool around with these American brats. He's just an easy target.


Isn't that what Arthur C Clarke did?
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PolyChronic Time Girl



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe_doufu wrote:


If Michael really wanted to molest a kid, he's got the money to go to a country where it doesn't cost so much and where you can bribe the authorities to make it legal. I'm sure he's not dumb enough to fool around with these American brats. He's just an easy target.


True, he could do this. But celebrity behavior can be weird...sometimes they'll do things with the thrill of being caught and seeing if they can get away with it. Look at the Winona Ryder case where she shoplifted thousands of dollars of clothes. She didn't need to do this with all the money she has.
Be he could just be a weirdo and is not guilty of any of this...hard to say when you don't know the guy and you're just looking at it from the media's perspective.
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plokiju



Joined: 15 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it was really about the sexual act itself. I agree that if he wanted sex with young boys he could just go to a country where that kind goes on but did you see the Martin Bashir interview? It looks like it was the emotional intimacy he was after. It was like he wanted them to be his best friend and the 'lewdness' was just part of the friendship.

Just look at his lifestyle. He's friends with childstars, lives at an amusement park, has/had a pet chimpanzee. He's got the mentality of a child in many ways but he's got the urges of an adult. I don't know what went on exactly but I'm betting, at the very least, it was probably inappropriate. Child stardom did one hell of a number on him.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jackson 'to change his lifestyle

Michael Jackson's lawyer said the singer will no longer share his bed with young boys, after the star was cleared of 10 child abuse charges.

"He's not going to do that anymore," lawyer Thomas Mesereau told US network NBC. "He's not going to make himself vulnerable to this anymore."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4091990.stm


Well, I wasn't expecting him to admit that sleeping with other people's kids is bad.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[deleted]

Last edited by Gopher on Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Big_Bird wrote:
What about Tyson. I presume you are talking about the rape case where he was convicted of raping a beauty pagent?

In fact, the last I heard, she NEVER tried to collect the money that she was awarded. And people who knew her said the whole experience changed her in a very negative way and damaged her for good. Her father regrets ever taking it up with the law.

And why did she get so *beep* up? Because nasty people like you were so quick to doubt her story.


I seem to recall that the circumstances of this case were the Tyson called her at approximately 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning "to talk about business," and she dutifully came. I placed that in quotes because we all recognize it as a "booty call," and so did she.

I think Tyson behaved badly with her, and probably raped her in the "date rape" sense of the term, but it is absurd to think that this innocent saintly woman really believed she was going to go to his hotel room and talk about business at that time.

Things aren't so black and white.


My recollection is also that he called her at 2 or 3 in the morning. He invited her not to his hotel room, but to a party. All excited and surprised that a celebrity was showing interest in her (as any young 18 year old kid would be) she giggled with her friends (other beauty contestants) and asked them what she should do. They egged her on. She was an excited young kid from a sheltered middleclass background who had no bloody idea what a thug she was getting mixed up with. Rapists are weird looking strangers who pull knives on you in dark alleys, and it would probably never have occured to her that this well known celebrity might possibly be a rapist. So off she went thinking she was going to a party. However, as I recall it, he then says he just needs to stop by his hotel to pick something up. Why doesn't she come up with him? Well, Ok sure.

Big mistake. The next thing she is being thrown down on a bed and a great big heavy brute is on her and life as she's known it is over. From what I understand he was very rough and he did a lot of damage to her down there.

So what if she found him attractive or kissed him beforehand? I kissed and cuddled with my longterm boyfriends for days or weeks before I would feel ready to "go all the way" (as they like to term it). And sometimes I would see a guy for a few days or weeks and go so far, but never as far as he'd like, and then I'd break it off because I didn't feel quite right about him. Did I deserve to be raped? According to you lot I probably did. When I was 18, I slept fully clothed for a week with my boyfriend at the time before I felt comfortable enough to even let him fiddle with my bra strap! For that I'm sure I deserved to be raped according to some of the people here.

What strange logic you men have. If a woman so much as considers the possibility of sleeping with a man, she is already committed to a point of no return where she has no longer has a right to say no. Just kissing a man or going to his room means he suddenly has the right to do what he bloody likes with her. Women have sexual feelings too, and sometimes we get pulled along with them for a while until suddenly we have to put the brakes on fast. There is much more at stake for us. Pregnancy, and still the fact that even in the 21st century society still has a medieval idea that a woman's honour is kept in her knickers. And also, for a woman it has to be feel totally right. If she only feels 99% right, that 1% of feeling wrong can make it a truly horrible experience (unlike you guys can just hop on and off any old thing and only think of running for the door when the act is completed.) Sometimes you might be messing with a guy you'd initially found attractive, but after you get down to kissing, suddenly every cell in your body starts screaming no No NO! Why? Probably some natural evolutionary phenomenen. Perhaps your body detects that he's not genetically compatible or something like that.

Imagine if you men applied your crazy logic to job seeking. Imagine you express interest in a job, and want to know a bit more about it. However because you've had a look around the school and met the director, he now has the right to FORCE you to sign the contract, even though you have some misgivings. Just the fact that you had some curiosity about the job and wanted to check it out means you no longer have the right to back out! Crazy huh?!
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[deleted]

Last edited by Gopher on Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Because "you women" do some pretty despicable things, too.


I wouldn't dispute that some women do some stupid/vindictive/horrible things (although I'd say that "you men" still win hands down when it comes to attrocities against other members of the human race) but where does that make it OK for a whole bunch of people who've never met the unfortunate Desiree Washington to blame her for her horrific experience or label her a gold digger on a whim.

Unfortunately many of "you men" are desperate to believe that "we women" are almost certainly out to cry wolf whenever one is brave enough to come forward. Ironically, rape is in fact a terribly unreported crime. It's even more unreported when it happens to "you men" because society is even less sympathetic. Perhaps you were gay, or why didn't you stick up for yourself, etc.

It's also extraordinarily difficult to secure a conviction in a rape case. Police get frustrated when they see the same perpetrators accused again and again, but most times he deesn't even have to face a trial, nevermind a conviction. The system is hopelessly weighted in favour of the rapist, who know they can rape again and again and probably never be punished for it - especially if he rapes women he is acquainted with. It's quite possible that Tyson raped other women who (sadly) knew better than to come forward. I know I would have thought twice about confronting a celebrity and have my name smeared all around the world.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
I don't doubt that, as you illustrate, some women have serious issues with sex, and that is why as men, we need to be wary of women in early encounters.
.


Make that "most women have serious issues with sex with someone they are not in a deep relationship with." It's not like having your nails painted is it.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[deleted]

Last edited by Gopher on Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Man known as The Man



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manlyboy wrote:
Michael Jackson was on trial? When did this happen? I wish the media would devote more time to these kind of things.

Guilty until proven wealthy, I say.


I don't see what the big deal is.

Micahel Jackson allegedly did nothing that any self-respecting Roman Catholic Archbishop would not cover up using due diligence.
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Big_Bird wrote:
The system is hopelessly weighted in favour of the rapist, who know they can rape again and again and probably never be punished for it - especially if he rapes women he is acquainted with. It's quite possible that Tyson raped other women who (sadly) knew better than to come forward. I know I would have thought twice about confronting a celebrity and have my name smeared all around the world.


Have you ever seen what happens to a man, any man, accused of rape?


What's your point? That we should never prosecute rapists in case some of them are falsely accused? What about people falsely accused of murder? Should we stop prosecuting murderers incase some of them happen to be innocent? What are you getting at?

Have you ever seen what happens to a man woman or child, any man woman or child, who has the horrific misfortune to be raped?
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[deleted]

Last edited by Gopher on Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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