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Funding for Levees slashed
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
It isn't the President that introduces spending bills in the US. All spending bills must be introduced first in the House of Representatives. They are passed there and sent to the Senate. Passed there, probably after some joint reconcilliation committee, and THEN sent to the President. Did Bush VETO funding for N.O. levee projects?

Yes, I know that the president submits his proposed budget to congress, but it has to be introduced by a member. And congress can and does still do what they want.

Fact is, every Senator and Congressman (with the exception of ONE: Congressman Ron Paul of Texas) is busy getting his or her hands on as big a piece of pork as possible. It all passes in big bills and the Prez. just gives it to them. Louisiana is represented by both Rs and Ds. They just couldn't get the muscle in Congress to get the bucks. But, since they all did get millions, they also didn't put these projects on the top of their priority lists.


I think this is an excellent point. So I have to wonder why LA couldn't make room for the necessary levee spending?

ontheway wrote:
Who among you spoke out about this a year ago. So, for all of the experts out there: what is the next big unfunded project that should be funded?


It wasn't necessary that I here, or anyone else, speak out on this a year ago. The DHS had the breaking of the New Orleans levee as the second most likely crisis scenario, right behind a terrorist attack on New York City. It's more than a shame that DHS didn't co-ordinate its fears with convincing the representatives and senators from LA that they needed to put money in for prevention of this disaster.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
DHS had the breaking of the New Orleans levee as the second most likely crisis scenario...


This is very interesting information, and I haven't heard this before. This is the kind of information that changes an analytical pattern. Where did you come by this?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Kuros wrote:
DHS had the breaking of the New Orleans levee as the second most likely crisis scenario...


This is very interesting information, and I haven't heard this before. This is the kind of information that changes an analytical pattern. Where did you come by this?


I believe it was one of Desultude's personal anecdotes? But I've encountered variations on this theme elsewhere.

Link 1

Quote:
What has DHS been doing if not readying itself and its subcomponents for a likely disaster? The collapse of a New Orleans levee has long led a list of worst-case urban crisis scenarios.


Link 2

Quote:
In July 2004, more than 40 federal, state, local and volunteer organizations practiced this very scenario in a five-day simulation code-named "Hurricane Pam", where they had to deal with an imaginary storm that destroyed over half a million buildings in New Orleans and forced the evacuation of a million residents.

At the end of the exercise Ron Castleman, regional director for the Federal Emergency Management Agency declared: "We made great progress this week in our preparedness efforts.

"Disaster response teams developed action plans in critical areas such as search and rescue, medical care, sheltering, temporary housing, school restoration and debris management. These plans are essential for quick response to a hurricane but will also help in other emergencies," he said.


Ah! Finally found it! Hidden at the bottom, there...

Looks like I messed it up. It was second on FEMA's list, not DHS'. I got this from this thread

Link 3

Quote:
U.S. Geological Survey seismologist Lucy Jones remembers attending an emergency training session in August 2001 with the Federal Emergency Management Agency that discussed the three most likely catastrophes to strike the United States.

First on the list was a terrorist attack in New York. Second was a super-strength hurricane hitting New Orleans. Third was a major earthquake on the San Andreas fault.

Now that the first two have come to pass, she and other earthquake experts are using the devastating aftermath of Hurricane Katrina as an opportunity to reassess how California would handle a major temblor.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Gopher wrote:
Kuros wrote:
DHS had the breaking of the New Orleans levee as the second most likely crisis scenario...


This is very interesting information, and I haven't heard this before. This is the kind of information that changes an analytical pattern. Where did you come by this?


I believe it was one of Desultude's personal anecdotes? But I've encountered variations on this theme elsewhere....Looks like I messed it up. It was second on FEMA's list, not DHS'...

U.S. Geological Survey seismologist Lucy Jones remembers attending an emergency training session in August 2001 with the Federal Emergency Management Agency that discussed the three most likely catastrophes to strike the United States.

First on the list was a terrorist attack in New York. Second was a super-strength hurricane hitting New Orleans. Third was a major earthquake on the San Andreas fault.


Either way, if I were into smoking guns, I'd say that here we have something that smells an awful lot like gunpowder...

I'll wait for the commissions to present evidence and call witnesses, probably we'll see something fairly soon on this.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some final intriguing footage reveals a journalist questioning former President Bill Clinton as to why many locals feel that the levees were purposefully broken.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/090905levees.htm



This was during the press conference with Clinton and George Bush Snr announcing their combined "relief effort" for New Orleans. Upon hearing the question Clinton appears to be surprised and then simply walks off.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/audio/090905clinton.mp3
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Kuros"]
ontheway wrote:
It isn't the President that introduces spending bills in the US. All spending bills must be introduced first in the House of Representatives. They are passed there and sent to the Senate. Passed there, probably after some joint reconcilliation committee, and THEN sent to the President. Did Bush VETO funding for N.O. levee projects?


I find this a little disingenious: the president presents a budget, which is where it all starts. The funds were cut in at the budget level by the president. Congress restored some of the cuts asked for by Bush. In other words, had Bush had his way the funding would have been even lower.

ontheway wrote:
Who among you spoke out about this a year ago. So, for all of the experts out there: what is the next big unfunded project that should be funded?


Quote:
It wasn't necessary that I here, or anyone else, speak out on this a year ago. The DHS had the breaking of the New Orleans levee as the second most likely crisis scenario, right behind a terrorist attack on New York City. It's more than a shame that DHS didn't co-ordinate its fears with convincing the representatives and senators from LA that they needed to put money in for prevention of this disaster.


Yup.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone is really giving Bush or any President in modern times too much credit regarding "his" budget. No modern president nor any member of congress in modern times has read the US Budget either as proposed or passed. This point was very extravagantly made some years ago when a man, one single individual, succeeded in actually reading the budget for one Fiscal Year. The only man in modern history to read the US Budget. He was interviewed on the Today Show and several other talk shows. Mind you, he didn't study or analyze it, he just read it. No one else has, before or since. That's right NOBODY.

Each member fights for his piece of pork and they fight over the totals, but no one actually looks inside. It's just to big and too complicated.

Tens of thousands of people, committees, agencies, departments and various other groups are responsible for bits and pieces of the budget. Each acts without any interest in the Budget nor the country as a whole. It's one of the reasons big socialistic institutions and programs ultimately fail. The US is a big socialist pig trough.

It's very likely that Bush had no idea about the money for the NO levees one way or another. Of course, he can never admit knowing or not knowing. If he didn't know, he's incompetent, stupid and out of touch. And if he did know, well then ... he's incompetent, stupid and out of touch.

That is why it was important for the Louisiana Congressional Delegation to push for the funding if they felt it was important. They could use the DHS report to garner publicity and support for the funding if it was on their priority list. They didn't .

And that is why I ask the question, "Who among you spoke out about this a year ago....(and) what is the next big unfunded project that should be funded?" Because, if you know what it is, YOU can make it a personal project and get it funded. When you make a big noise, they're happy to throw money at you, get a Photo OP, and have you go away smiling.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
It's very likely that Bush had no idea about the money for the NO levees one way or another. Of course, he can never admit knowing or not knowing. If he didn't know, he's incompetent, stupid and out of touch. .



How so? You just said the the U.S. budget was too big and complicated. Does the President have the time to read it? Is he supposed to personally know EVERY project in the 50 states that needs funding? What are you trying to say here?
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Kuros wrote:
DHS had the breaking of the New Orleans levee as the second most likely crisis scenario...


This is very interesting information, and I haven't heard this before. This is the kind of information that changes an analytical pattern. Where did you come by this?


This is something we've been discussing from the beginning... I'm surprised you missed that, but these threads do tend to wander. Or maybe it was part of a differnt thread...

It'll be interesting to see if this changes your perspective any... or at least leaves you with a better understanding as to why some of us have been so up in arms.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FEMA or the State of LA?? It's gonna be one big mess sorting all the factors out....

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050917/ap_on_re_us/katrina_evacuation

As far back as eight years ago, Congress ordered the Federal Emergency Management Agency to develop a plan for evacuating New Orleans during a massive hurricane, but the money instead went to studying the causeway bridge that spans the city's Lake Pontchartrain, officials say.

The outcome provides one more example of the government's failure to prepare for a massive but foreseeable catastrophe, said the lawmaker who helped secure the money for FEMA to develop the evacuation plan.

"They never used it for the intended purpose," said former Rep. Billy Tauzin, R-La. "The whole intent was to give them resources so they could plan an evacuation of New Orleans that anticipated that a very large number of people would never leave."

In Hurricane Katrina's aftermath, attention has focused on the inability of local and federal officials to evacuate or prepare for the large number of poor people, many of them minorities, who had no access to transportation and remained behind.

That possibility was one of the concerns that led Congress in 1997 to set aside $500,000 for FEMA to create "a comprehensive analysis and plan of all evacuation alternatives for the New Orleans metropolitan area."

Frustrated two years later that nothing materialized, Congress strengthened its directive. This time it ordered "an evacuation plan for a Category 3 or greater storm, a levee break, flood or other natural disaster for the New Orleans area."
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Urbanmyth didn't understand my post, so let me expand:

The budget is so big that the prez. probably didn't read nor know about funding levels for the NO levees, nor most line items in the budget. Then I made an ironic comment that: if he admitted to not knowing about the levees, he would be condemned as being stupid and out of touch with his own government and his own budget, and if he admitted to knowing about the unfundeed levee projects he would also be condemned for being stupid and out of touch with the world and the people - a no win political situation.

Although I don't like Bush, condemning him for the levee funding levels in the way it is being done here is unfair.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontheway wrote:
Although I don't like Bush, condemning him for the levee funding levels in the way it is being done here is unfair.


If he didn't pay any attention to the budget - get some fairly heavy debriefing on it, that is - then where did the cut to the funding come from?
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Criminal Probe Set For New Orleans Levees

POSTED: 7:46 pm EST November 10, 2005
UPDATED: 7:46 pm EST November 10, 2005

NEW ORLEANS -- Federal prosecutors are conducting a criminal investigation into the levee failures that swamped New Orleans, looking into the possibility of corruption in the design, construction and maintenance of the flood barriers.

U.S. Attorney Jim Letten said Wednesday that his office began the investigation the week after Hurricane Katrina.

"The scope of our interest is very broad," he said.

He said some officials were found to have undisclosed conflicts of interest, and "we're extremely concerned about those." He would not give details.

James Bernazzani, FBI agent in charge in New Orleans, said agents have received numerous tips about possible malfeasance.

Other investigations are being conducted by Louisiana's attorney general, who is looking into whether poor construction or design flaws played a role in the failures, and the New Orleans district attorney, who raised the possibility that faulty materials were used in the floodwalls.

http://www.wral.com/apnationalnews/5297110/detail.html
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