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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: Judge converts terrorists |
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An interesting read.
Yemeni judge "converts" terrorists
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| Over the last year or so, the government of Yemen has released 182 captured Islamist militants. Thus far, their rate of recidivism is zero. |
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| He presented the prisoners with a series of questions and proposed to debate them based only on the Quran and the hadith, or ways of the prophet. The first question was, "Is Yemen an Islamic nation?" The prisoners said no; Al-Hitar said yes. He gave them copies of Yemen's constitution and legal code and volunteered to change anything they could find that was un-Islamic. They came up with nothing. Al-Hitar next brought up Yemen's alliances with the United States and other non-Islamic countries. "Nations have treaties with other nations," he told them. "Even the prophet did, in his time." When the prisoners objected to the existence of vice, he told them that vice existed even in early Islamic times—otherwise, the Muslim caliphates would never have developed criminal law. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps not all it cracked up to be.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/09/nislam09.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/09/ixworld.html
A pioneering scheme to fight Islamist terror by encouraging jailed extremists to rethink their grasp of the Koran is under fire after claims that some of its "converts" have taken up arms again.
The effectiveness of his technique - a theological "duel" in which he and the prisoners quote Koranic texts at each other - is in doubt, however, after reports that some al-Qaeda militants freed under the scheme have been caught fighting coalition forces in Iraq.
Among those released is the former chief bodyguard of Osama bin Laden, Nasser Al-Bahri, who has admitted that his sessions with Judge al-Hitar did nothing to diminish his belief in the leader of al-Qaeda. Instead, he suggested that many militants simply pretended to repent to gain quick release from jail. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Op was from 2004 when 180 or so were released, and then the second post is from 2005 when the numbers increased to 360 or so. Out of those, 'some' have been found fighting in Iraq.
Were this a western judicial program would those numbers be considered a success or failure? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Right, no program is perfect. And, let's say, for argument's sake, that 60 out of those 360 did become involved in terrorist activities again. That would make the success rate 83%. Not too shabby. But that's just numbers. Also keep in mind:
1) that 300 of the "reformed" jihadists will no longer promote al-qaeda and its ideology. Therefore, there are fewer recruits and fewer impressionable people that might become jihadists in the future.
2) At least a few of them will accept his message and promote it themselves. Consequently, reform is more likely to occur.
#) Compare that to the success rate of an invasion of Iraq. How many jihadists have been killed or imprisoned? How many have been created due to the invasion? I'm guessing the latter is higher than the former.
Sure, a lot of those dudes are doing it just to get out of jail. I'm not dumb nor that naive to think differently. That being said, I think this judge's actions are one step in the right direction. If there were more like him out there in the Islamic world, questioning fundamentalists, reform w/in the Muslim world is a lot more likely to happen.
I posted this as another reminder that Muslims are far from a monolithic group, and there are some liberal-minded Muslims out there in the world. some on this board tend to group them all together. |
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| No system is perfect - but I think the judge is pretty smart to try. You can not blame him for being lenient when what is is doing is trying to educate them towards the sensible truth. It is not his fault that some remain idiots - I doubt they'll get a second chance when caught. But if some of those he educates go on to educate others it could be considered a success. Of course there will always be those who say one he set free killed again - but there are plenty more where he came from and you have to start somewhere. Smart judge. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: Here's a revelation: It's not reason |
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| Quote: |
| Sure, a lot of those dudes are doing it just to get out of jail. I'm not dumb nor that naive to think differently. That being said, I think this judge's actions are one step in the right direction. If there were more like him out there in the Islamic world, questioning fundamentalists, reform w/in the Muslim world is a lot more likely to happen. |
I agree with the sentiment that there should be more openness and dialogue in any society; not just Islam. But I could not therefore concur (if that is indeed what you are suggesting) that this judge's actions are appropriate in this situation. This judge's heart is in the right place, but his head is far from it. Disputing logic and theology with Islamic radicals doesn't get to the heart of the matter, because I don't think the passion that inspires radical Islam can be at all tamed by a few minutes of logic at the bench.
I, myself, believe that in Islam there is a strong impulse (one that may nevertheless only manifest amongst a fringe, but there it remains strong) towards not extremism simply, but towards rebellion against the Sunna and the Umma. I think it is fortunate that the hadiths have had such strong influence within the Islamic community, but it is very clear that some extremists look back to the origins of Islam and pay homage to that first. Islam was born in militant rebellion, unlike Christianity, which was born in hopeful defiance (but not direct rebellion), nor was it anchored in the lifeblood of a particular people as Judaism was (indeed, even the OT's teachings evolve with the Jewish people, to say nothing of the Talmud or other such theological works outside of the principal revealed text). Therefore, one is more likely to see fringes on the outside react against the broader community of the Umma or the Sunna, and particularly so in a violent way. Now, certainly, we can acknowledge Christian fringe movements and even Jewish ones (such as the die-hard settlers in Gaza), and given this time of increasing modernization and mass-ethnic/linguistic extinction, we should not lose sight of them as well. However, even in this direction we might acknowledge that the Islamic world, especially given its position in the global economy as well as its relative youth stacked against some of the other religions (Christianity 1400 years old was far from open-minded and tolerant), would be a particular place of upheavel and a breeding-ground for religious extremism. |
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