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Was Gandhi a racist?
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:


Yes, I can be serious.



You obviously don't know how rude the word kaffir is considered in South Africa. In fact, it has far more negative connotations than the word n***er does in the west. I think some liberals are uncomfortable with the fact that one of their icons was a racist. Anyone else agree?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You obviously don't know how rude the word kaffir is considered in South Africa.


Yes, I'm aware of the word's connotation now. However, did the word have the same connotation in 1914? Does the word have it's present connotation because of the way it was used in 1914? Just asking.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think some liberals are uncomfortable


Why would Gandhi's reputation be a liberal/conservative issue?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I read somewhere that he had black slaves



Didn't he live his whole life in the British Empire? Slavery was outlawed by the Empire in the early 1800's. Where did Gandhi live that he could own slaves of any kind?
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jazblanc77



Joined: 22 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dulouz wrote:
I saw a Penn and Teller program where they ripped on Mother Teresa, Ghandi and the Tibetan monks. They said Ghandi hated Black people and they showed some proof. Thats not the only place I've heard it too.


I saw that one too... I think it was called "Bullsh1t".
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Didn't he live his whole life in the British Empire? Slavery was outlawed by the Empire in the early 1800's. Where did Gandhi live that he could own slaves of any kind?


I said that I read it somewhere, right after admitting that I am not an authority on Gandhi. I never presented it as a fact and it is disingenuous of you to imply that I did. I was hoping someone more knowledgeable on the subject might shed some light on it. With regards to slavery; I am sure slavery continued after it was outlawed. It would have been a very difficult law to police considering how vast and extensive the empire was. Still, that is an argument for another day, maybe one many moons away.

Quote:
Why would Gandhi's reputation be a liberal/conservative issue?


He's an icon in liberal circles.

-------------------------------------------

More Gandhi quotes folks,

The Europeans sought to degrade Indians to the level of the raw kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness".

"Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1064687,00.html
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I said that I read it somewhere, right after admitting that I am not an authority on Gandhi. I never presented it as a fact and it is disingenuous of you to imply that I did.


No need to be so defensive. Nothing was implied.
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy: you realise you're quoting from a liberal newspaper?
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer wrote:
Gwangjuboy: you realise you're quoting from a liberal newspaper?


It's a liberal newspaper that featured an article on Ghandi. The quotes are from Ghandi himself.
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwangjuboy wrote:
Privateer wrote:
Gwangjuboy: you realise you're quoting from a liberal newspaper?


It's a liberal newspaper that featured an article on Ghandi. The quotes are from Ghandi himself.


I don't dispute it nor do I dispute, given the evidence, that Ghandi was a racist - at least in the early part of his career, perhaps he changed?

I just thought it was ironic you quoting from a liberal newspaper given what you said below:

Gwangjuboy wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Yes, I can be serious.


You obviously don't know how rude the word kaffir is considered in South Africa. In fact, it has far more negative connotations than the word n***er does in the west. I think some liberals are uncomfortable with the fact that one of their icons was a racist. Anyone else agree?


You don't know the liberal character! Smile

The fact is Guardian-reading liberals enjoy feeling uncomfortable about things! They like to agonize over whether they ought to feel guilty over this or that and forcing themselves to see imperfections in their idols is very much par for the course.

I'm a liberal so I can say this.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My God ... they killed him!



There was a man named Mahatma Ghandi
He would not bow down he would not fight
He knew the deal was down and dirty
And nothing wrong could make it right away

But he knew his duty and the price he had to pay
Just another holy man who tried to make a stand
My God they killed him

http://chapter33.hamtwoslices.net/videos/theykilledhim.wmv
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ChimpumCallao



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes he was a racist. who wasn't back then??

anyway, his interest was Indians who he saw as equal to whites...not blacks who he obviously desdained. It's perfectly obvious...people always fight for what is closest to home...he wasn't black...the hell did he care?

I saw that BS show with Penn and Teller (I dont miss one) and I've read other accounts of similar behavior.

Anyway, just about everyone in the public eye is to be distrusted...they're not good at anything but getting famous (manipulating PR) or getting elected (manipulating people). Most 'heroes' are those you never hear about.
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koryo1



Joined: 26 Aug 2005

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:58 am    Post subject: Intellectual immaturity Reply with quote

You're all a group of idiots. I'm sorry to say it, but...

I never thought much (negatively) of the discussions that take place on sites of this sort. Actually, I've valued them as sources of debate and information. But this is the first time I've come across something that I actually knew something about.

The reason I make the bold statement at the top is because you're all speaking out of conjectures and speculation. You all so much as admit your ignorance, then continue to say whatever it is you feel like saying--using the claim of ignorance as an excuse. That's some of you; the rest of you make sweeping generalizations and pretend to be wise of the ways of the world (and every single person in it that has ever existed and hence, your sage generalizations apply even to Gandhi).

First of all, Ganghi was not a racist. He was a real life human being who was trying to make the best of a bad situation. To suggest that he was a racist is irresponsible sensationism. For one thing, he volunteered and organized an ambulance corp to tend to the black victims of the 1892 Boer War because the British would not treat them. That's fact, not the silly things being spewed on this board. Secong, he on several occasions commented on the barbarity of US civil rights toward African Americans, though that term is anachronistic at this point. Third, and far more importantly, he always championed equality of the untouchable class, whom he called "Harijan" or Children of God, in the way that African American leaders of the Civil Rights Movement (including King, who was a disciple of Ganghi) tried to do in order to remove the stigma of words like "nigger" and re-humanize the people behind the label. He took in harijan families into his "ashram", living community, much to the dismay and contentions of the others living there (including his wife). He also devoted much of his life to the couse of the Harijan, including publishing a weekly newspaper titled "Harijan". One of the most famous quotations he is known for is his reply to the question of whether he was a Hindu, a question directed at the heart of the near-genocidal tensions dividng India, to which he replied, "Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew".

To quote Gandhi to assert that he was anything is not terribly difficult, partially because he was, and remains, one of, if not the most, prolific writer intellectual of our time: his collected works span a 100-volume collection of books that are approximately 500-600 pages of small font. Also, his views and thought were not rigid, but rather hereustic - changing over time. As the title to his limited autobiography suggests, "My Life - A story of my experiments with truth," he experimented with truth, and as any good scientist, he tried out different hypotheses and refined his convictions over time. He, in fact, admitted to potential biases on many occasions, as we all will if we are honest. But, such admissions in themselves, do not a racist make, but rather prove the underlying values that he pursued.

I would encourage you all to read a little something more on the topic rather than merely throwing around useless fragments, especially from sensationalists, and more broadly than this topic, I would suggest you all to speak with more scientific accuracy - which means not running your yappers about non-sense and hasty generalizations not rooted in any sort of factual basis other than your own underlying, immature prejudices.

Gandhi's life and work are impressive in their intellectual span, ranging from medical treatments and longevity studies to moral and social commentary and, of course, civil disobedience. His life and sacrifice is a legacy akin to christ and one that only those ignorant of the facts and full picture could disparage. The only potentially reasonable disagreement comes from a singular point of departure of Einstein - and that had to do more with a matter of pragmatism than true moral philosophy, wherein Einstein himself acknowldged the shakiness of the moral ground upon which the argument stood, but appealed to a sense of "common sense."

Read, people, read.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I think it would be a good idea". Wink
Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization
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