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Sogang Korean Course for Waygookin
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:06 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

Thanks dude
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rok_the-boat



Joined: 24 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the SNU course - four hours everyday for a year. It was much like the Yonsei course above - more grammar than much else. Each level, the stated object was to finish the textbook over and above teaching the students. Almost zero free talking time. It was OK though as living in Korea, all you have to do is step out of the door if you want to talk. I got thru all the levels - the top was the hardest as it included 50% retuning Koreans ... they were quite fluent (just culdn't read / srite).
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Aglamesis



Joined: 06 May 2003

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject: Short-term Reply with quote

I'm doing the short-term intensive class at Ewha. I'm wondering if Sogang has anything similar. I'll continue with Ewha's regular class (3 days a week, two hours a day). 4 hours a day is too much with a full time job. Does Sogang have a similar regular course?

jon.
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gi66y



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Ilsan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yonsei is not bad at all.

I have been studying at Yonsei for almost two years (3 months on and 3 months off). I've done the A course: Levels 1, 2, 3 and I'm enrolled for level 4 starting April 1st. 600 hours so far of which I'm sure I attended at least 500. Let me say that no one speaks all that well after levels 1 or 2 (not even the Japanese). Except possibly for the odd Kyopo with Korean parents that got placed in a low level because they've never learned to read or write. I should mention that I have a lot of trouble believing that Sogang students would be speaking well after only two levels either.

Yonsei's B course is better if you're at a low level, but they still use the same text book as the A course and have to take similar tests. The main difference is that the B course moves more slowly and the teachers explain more in English. They also have more time for speaking exercises. I should mention that the majority (~90%)of students take the A course, and then the ones who fall behind drop down into the B.

I have been really happy with Yonsei. I have liked virtually all teachers and fellow students. We have had a good time studying, but it really depends on who you get in terms of classmates. I have been lucky so far. Most students studying there are younger (in their 20s), so it can be a lot like college only less serious. Although you learn a lot of grammar theory. I find I remember things better when I understand them theoretically, so I can relate them to something rather than just memorizing lines.

In level 3, I had a discussion with my teacher about this topic one day and she said (based on my understanding as the conversation was in Korean) that the Sogang course is definitely more communicative, which gives beginner students an initial advantage over Yonsei's students., but that Yonsei students catch up on speaking by level 4 and are then at an advantage because they are much better at written Korean. This sounds good of course, but I don't imagine many foreigners are interersted in writing novels, nor would they want to study up to level 4.

I knew Sogang had a better reputation prior to enrolling at Yonsei and I would have gone to Sogang myself, but from where I live in Ilsan it's already an hour commute, and Sogang would add on another 20 minutes. This all while working full time from 4-9pm. Although it's nice to be making money while studying, I don't recommend working. You won't learn as much when you don't have time to do the homework exercises. I get thoroughly exhausted being out of the house from 7:40am - 9:30pm five days a week and by week seven I'm really looking forward to the end. But, overall, I feel it's well worth it. I don't get too stressed because I don't shoot for straight As. I just try to learn enough to get through to the next level.

I do believe Beaver when he says Sogang is better because I respect his opinion, but having studied at Yonsei I have seen much improvement in myself. Now, had I gone to Sogang instead, might I be better off? Who knows, but I don't regret Yonsei at all...It has been a blast.

www.yonsei.ac.kr/~kli/ (Yonsei's online program guide)

Yonsei is not bad at all. I would even venture to say it's a very good program, but is Sogang better? Probably.
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Mashimaro



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gi66y wrote:


Yonsei is not bad at all. I would even venture to say it's a very good program, but is Sogang better? Probably.


Interesting to hear another opinion on this. I admire your dedication, both working and studying, not sure that I could do it. I'll study for 3 months and then look for a job to save up enough for the next level. If I don't find a job quickly after finishing I will be slightly screwed however Confused

When all is said and done, I think enjoyment plays a big role. If you enjoy Yonsei's style and you like it enough to continue through the levels great. If you like Sogang's style, great too.. I figure if you study for a period of years at any place you will see a gigantic improvement.
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gi66y wrote:
In level 3, I had a discussion with my teacher about this topic one day and she said (based on my understanding as the conversation was in Korean) that the Sogang course is definitely more communicative, which gives beginner students an initial advantage over Yonsei's students., but that Yonsei students catch up on speaking by level 4 and are then at an advantage because they are much better at written Korean. This sounds good of course, but I don't imagine many foreigners are interersted in writing novels, nor would they want to study up to level 4.


Actually, that's a stereotype. I've had the same conversation with Yonsei teachers (and, as I am eventually going back there to study, I'm sure I'll have the same conversation with them again). Sogang students are supposedly not as good with writing or grammar, but in my experience Sogang students are the equal of Yonsei students in both (comparing Sogang students who take the optional first hour writing class).

The difference is that Sogang isn't painful.
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gi66y



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Ilsan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_beaver wrote:

as I am eventually going back there to study, I'm sure I'll have the same conversation with them again


I'm curious why you're going back....do explain please
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gi66y wrote:
I'm curious why you're going back....do explain please


Gi66y, you sexy hunk of a man, let me tell you.

First, because I can only do two more levels at Sogang before I finish and I have a bit of an addiction.

Second, because the two levels I studied at Sogang gave me all the skills I need to successfully attend Yonsei.

Third, that fucking program is not going to beat me.
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JackSarang



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beaver, at this point and after all the courses you've taken how would you rate your degree of fluency?

At this point, what _can't_ you do in Korean?
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JackSarang wrote:
Beaver, at this point and after all the courses you've taken how would you rate your degree of fluency?

At this point, what _can't_ you do in Korean?


Intermediate to upper intermediate based on the ACTFL scale which means I'm about halfway, in terms of study/practice hours, to an advanced level, and a quarter of the way to a Korean native-speaker level.

What can't I do? Tough question.

In an interactive situation (a conversation) I can do pretty much anything assuming the other person is patient.

Depending on the kind of show I can watch most things, with variety shows giving me the most problems and dramas being the easiest (because it's the same plot, same thing over and over and over and over).

Can read 해리 포터, but can't read 임꺽정.

Can't study a formal subject in Korean yet (but I will eventually).
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to learn korean, forget a course. Your kids will teach you. Allow one of them to be the teacher for 2/3 minutes at the end of each class, and let them teach you a word or a sentence. They love it. In fact if a lesson is really flagging or boring, just say "korean time" and they suddenly liven up to explain a word to you... I suppose its bad to be doing it in an English leson, but it improves their interest and enthusiasm a lot, plus they're translating into english, so its not totally useless exercise.

Now now, i'm giving away all my secrets.... but you good people deserve it... Laughing
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:12 am    Post subject: yes Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
If you want to learn korean, forget a course. Your kids will teach you. Allow one of them to be the teacher for 2/3 minutes at the end of each class, and let them teach you a word or a sentence. They love it. In fact if a lesson is really flagging or boring, just say "korean time" and they suddenly liven up to explain a word to you... I suppose its bad to be doing it in an English leson, but it improves their interest and enthusiasm a lot, plus they're translating into english, so its not totally useless exercise.

Now now, i'm giving away all my secrets.... but you good people deserve it... Laughing


I would not recommend that. Just as any other language, young kids don't have a great handle on their own language. Sometimes I know a word they don't know, and their pronunciation is extra hard to understand. Their gramnmar is flawed, and they speak with the style of a little kid. Do you want to speak like that?
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:13 am    Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

Ilsanman wrote:
I would not recommend that. Just as any other language, young kids don't have a great handle on their own language. Sometimes I know a word they don't know, and their pronunciation is extra hard to understand. Their gramnmar is flawed, and they speak with the style of a little kid. Do you want to speak like that?


And further, you couldn't pay me to be amongst a group of kids.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If 9 out of 10 of my kids pronounce " Onul ot de sayo" in the exact same way, I'm willing to believe its the correct pronunciation. They have spoken Korean every day of their lives after all.
If you aren't involving your kids in a language exchange, you're missing out... they love the idea that their teacher is interested in them and their language. And I don't think you can go wrong with learning the words for simple objects, days of the week, etc from them.
"Kiddy style"????When I was 5 years old, I don't think I said the word "Chair" any different to the way I do now...

Don't put them down,- the best Koreans I've known have been kids..
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