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controlling anger - oh, those kids
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radiothom9779



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:21 pm    Post subject: controlling anger - oh, those kids Reply with quote

Sad Hello everyone, I work for a decent, tiny hagwon in daegu. Been there for two months, my boss is pretty good though i think i am a little underpaid (1.7 for 25 hours a week) but whatever.. . Most of the kids are great, but there are 2 or 3 classes that i have a hard time getting them to listen or even take me seriously and it's incredibly trying and extremely frustrating..
anyone...

cheers


Last edited by radiothom9779 on Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mody Ba



Joined: 22 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 3:29 pm    Post subject: First of All,You Are Babysitting,Not Teaching Reply with quote

Seriously,Emily.I am not just trying to be a smarta--.Do not feel frustrated if you cannot actually teach them anything.You are there to babysit(and so the hakwon owner can make money).You are right, 1.7 mill for 25 hours is a little on the short side...but that is your business.I hope they are providing good housing or some other incentive for you.The hakwon owner may be a nice person...but I betcha they are doing fine financially,too.

Have you tried talking to the owner about the discipline problems?Personally,I would not TOUCH a student,anywhere (either goegraphically or physically Smile Try to get the owner to do something about the discipline.Some owners are cooperative(after all,they are interested in money,not problems),and some owners will do absolutely nothing.Talk to the owner,if you have not tried that already.
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posco's trumpet



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a sad story, but all to common in Korea. You really can't teach them much, but what you can do is try playing games with them. I've found that it's very hard to explain games to very young students, so start with simple things. Go fish, Old Maid and Crazy Eights are quite simple. Even if they don't catch on right away, they should be sufficiently interested in the game that they will stop bouncing off the walls.
There are many kinds of bingo available, for that age you need picture bingo and don't be surprised at how long it takes them to learn even the simplest vocabulary.
Animal lotto, I don't know why but my kids always want to play this one.
You can get them to say simple phrases (maybe)

Who has the tiger? - I have the tigal. etc.

Coloring exercises are good, it keeps them occupied and quiet for a while.
You can try to encorperate simple vocabulary and coloring:

A - apple - red , B - banana - yellow etc.

Action songs are OK if you can get their attention, it may take a few attemps before they get interested, but if they see that you are having fun with it they may decide to give it a try.

Lastly, don't expect your boss to help. Mine didn't, and from what I've read on this forum, not many others do either. They do crack down on you if you try and discipline the kids though, so be careful.
Sometimes you will have no choice, you will have to do something. 2 kids will be trying to kill each other and you will have to figure out how to stop it. Don't show your anger, even if you want to choke the little ^&*(s.
Try and deal with them calmly. (This is hard, especially at first)

Anyway, I hope this helps
Cheers
Confused
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Wombat



Joined: 28 May 2003
Location: slutville

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to get hugely frustrated with the littlies, until I realised that my job was not to be their teacher, but rather, to be their minder. Play games with them. If they want to run around the classroom arguing over crayons instead of learning the alphabet, don't stress. I figure, let them enjoy it; in a few years they're going to have all the joy beaten out of them by relentless schooling anyway...

Wombat
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Mody Ba



Joined: 22 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:06 pm    Post subject: Yeah,Right,"Wombie" Reply with quote

I agree.Babysitter.Minder.Call it what you will. But not really a teacher.
Basically,the parents just dump the kiddies for babysitting.If they actually learn some English(by osmosis or however)...well,that is all too the good.If they don't...well.... Laughing Rolling Eyes
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Circus Monkey



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: In my coconut tree

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Games TEACHER!! Games!!

To help with your own sanity, I'd recommend just taking a deep breath and counting to ten. It sounds corny but it works. Keeping busy with activities outside your job and perhaps having someone you can talk to also is beneficial.

Or you can come on here and vent away! Very Happy

CM
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Seatangle



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Left of Center

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have similar problems, and have had since the beginning. For several months I fought the good fight, but finally relented. I eventually figured out which are the ok classes, and which would get bleeped if I described them properly on this forum.

So now I focus most of my energy on the classes that are at least mildly productive, and kind of coast through the 2 or 3 soul-killers. It works for me, and the kids certainly don't mind.

Good luck, hope that helps.
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me commenting on Anger...

But what helps once in a while is to step back..

And look at the students. Just think about them. Is this normal? Just observe them.

And also think this... "I am not responsible!". I can try and teach them but I can not make them learn.

I also like to think where a student will be in 10 years. Just thinking that and the hum drum life they will live makes it all better.

Sorry mental wandering

Skippy
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Canadian Teacher



Joined: 22 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: Yeah,Right,"Wombie" Reply with quote

Mody Ba wrote:
I agree.Babysitter.Minder.Call it what you will. But not really a teacher.
Basically,the parents just dump the kiddies for babysitting.If they actually learn some English(by osmosis or however)...well,that is all too the good.If they don't...well.... Laughing Rolling Eyes


This is the situation in kiddie hagwans. I worked on the side in one a couple of years ago. I did good lessons et al but some kids would not get with the programme.

I would sit down and look at them. Since the pay was the same, who cares? Kids who want to learn something will, those that do not won't.

Hagwans are not schools. The real problem is that your superiors will not tell you this. They will not tell you that as a waygook, they do not expect you to teach anything. As long as the kids are in the room and supervised that is all that matters.
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captain kirk



Joined: 29 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mody ba says that working in a hagwon is babysitting, you are not really a teacher.
is anyone here a teacher. aren't we all here, with degrees, but on the whole without a teaching degree or experience back home teaching.
and if that's the case, who's the teacher who's going to call working in a hagwon not being a 'teacher'.
one of my huge pet peeves is the remarkable nerve of those who are 'smart' and move up to 'better things' than teaching in a hagwon. and listening to these folk, from their digs in higher places, having moved on, talk about their time slumming it. about how teaching in a hagwon isn't really teaching, and is more like 'babysitting'.
i talked to the korean teacher at the hagwon where i work and she replied that it's not really the place of someone to look back and down on the hagwon experience. since they left it. leaving was their comment. bye.
and i agree. i've TAUGHT in a hagwon for a long time. the reason i don't 'move up' to teaching adults or college students is personal. personally, i feel more comfortable hacking around with kids. especially since they aren't self-conscous, set in their ways, or judgemental. i may be idealizing kids, but kids are more FLOW than older folks. they haven't finished growing yet, their bones, their minds, everything. sure, they act like jerks sometimes......
but working in a hagwon IS teaching. and to speak about it as babysitting in a blase, 'been there' tone is extremely annoying and transparently POMPOUS. and it 'gets my goat!'
however, i can't stand 'teaching' kindergarten and would not call that 'teaching'. so go figure.
there are a lot of different hogwans. and sure you critics of hagwons have gone on to better things, in your opinion. it's your life. tell your mom.
but get this. humans are complex friggin' organisms and communicate on heaps of different levels. emotional, intellectual, bla bla bla. those who move on to adults or university feel COMFORTABLE twiddling with intellect. god speed to you. live in your mind, ok. go for it.
but what makes hagwon interesting, at its best, on my best days, on our (students and me) best days...is the whole shebang the uppity folk (who would not sell you a model of their nose) call 'babysitting'. full on trying to get the kids digging into LEARN.
it's so damn variable and intense sure a lot of people who feel comfortable going somewhere else, leave.
so go, but don't diss the survivors who DO(anything that doesn't kill you only makes you stronger). not that working in a hagwon is DEADLY.
i'd rather put up with the antics at the hagwon than some of the more 'adult' cruelties that slip between each other's shoulderblades in the arena of 'cutting edge' intellect. meow!, catty!
a hagwon is not necessarily a pigpen for bottom feeders! rather, given the right master of ceremonies (teacher) it can be friggin GREAT!
so sod off, detractors! rant out.
___________________
re; 'controlling anger' with the kids. don't. if they piss you off, let them know. and they will stop doing what they were doing which was cunningly designed to derail you. get them to stand up, arms up. you aren't some 'ideal' teacher who has no emotions and is always acting in a pure, pristine, enlightened fashion. you are dealing with kids, and the biggest weakness of kids is they can't control themselves. they drive themselves, their friends, their parents, and their teachers batty!
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Emma Clare



Joined: 24 May 2003
Location: Anseong, sung, song.

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a lot of ways it sounds not so bad. You get paid for 'bumming' around with kids Wink and being able to relax with them a bit. You at least have the opportunity to be yourself a bit. I always had to be so detached and formal with the kids in classes in the UK. I could never be display that fun 'child like' side of myself, that always helps kids to warm to you. (Didn't stop them seeing it hidden away under the surface though, they can spot it a mile off and I loved them for it! ) I couldn't even give them a hug without feeling like a pervert and I certainly couldn't pick them up or cuddle them.

Do they have any kind of exams or tests for what they are meant to have learnt? When I've taught you're always aware that if they don't get through their SATS or their work isn't up to scratch, you'll be labelled as a bad teacher, get into a lot of trouble.

I wouldn't care whether I was a considered a 'proper' teacher or not myself! As long as my employer was happy with my work.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink! Sounds like some of these kids need a LOT of energy to work with!
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with a lot of what has been said above, except the part about hagwan teachers not being "real teachers". It's up to you whether you are "real" or not. Sure there are classes that you can't do much with and probably never will, but there are also classes where the students are interested and want to learn. Focus on the good ones, do your best with the bad ones and don't let it bother you too much if they don't learn anything. Just getting to know the kids is half the battle, so long as you haven't gotten excessively angry with them, they should come around eventually. (of course some never do) Try to keep finding new things to interest them and try to ask yourself, "will this be fun in class?" Let them see that you have a sense of humor and are not a horrible monster from "Migookistan", and then just relax a bit.
I've come full circle this year, from blaming the kids and the school to looking at myself and trying to see what I can be doing to make things better. Sure, a lot of things didn't work, but I found a few that did. Some of the games in the "idea cookbook" are lifesavers so check them out. The school had crappy books, so I bought my own and give them as supplimental material. The school had very few games, so I bought a bunch of them too.
One thing that has really helped here is that we give fake bucks to kids for work done. We photocopied $1 US and then made a sheet of the copies. So now we can make a hundred or so fake bucks in the morning before class. The kids really love hoarding these things. We have a market day every 3 months where the kids can spend their earnings.
Anyway, I've rambled enough.

I hope this is helpful to you.
Cheers
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Emma Clare



Joined: 24 May 2003
Location: Anseong, sung, song.

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sure there are classes that you can't do much with and probably never will, but there are also classes where the students are interested and want to learn.


That's very reassuring to know!! Very Happy

Quote:

Focus on the good ones, do your best with the bad ones and don't let it bother you too much if they don't learn anything.


I reckon that sounds like a jolly good plan!

You can't expect every child to be a whizz. Some will learn more than others and some won't learn a thing! You'd go mad if you thought you were to be held fully accountable for all the learning that doesn't take place in the classroom. It's a joint thing and just as much up to them to put the effort in, as it is for you. They too are also responsible for their own learning. As I've said before, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!" Just got to make that water seem mighty interesting.

Thanks for your advice!


Although, I meant about other teachers higher up in the ESL 'pecking order' not regarding you as a real teacher, but a crèche worker or babysitter instead! Or even the Korean teachers saying/thinking such a thing.
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Canadian Teacher



Joined: 22 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emma Clare wrote:

Do they have any kind of exams or tests for what they are meant to have learnt? When I've taught you're always aware that if they don't get through their SATS or their work isn't up to scratch, you'll be labelled as a bad teacher, get into a lot of trouble.

Some hagwans have exams, most do not. The exams usually have the result of telling Mommie what a good student little Min-su is is that the money will keep coming in.

I wouldn't care whether I was a considered a 'proper' teacher or not myself! As long as my employer was happy with my work.

If you show up, the kids like you and you keep your mouth shut, your employer will love you.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink! Sounds like some of these kids need a LOT of energy to work with!


Korean kids are usually exhausted had starving while you are trying to teach them.
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