Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ok, advice on Uni contracts/conditions
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> FAQ
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
gajackson1



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Casa Chil, Sungai Besar, Sultanate of Brunei

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 9:29 pm    Post subject: Ok, advice on Uni contracts/conditions Reply with quote

This forum does a pretty good job with hakwon contracts/conditions, but i need some similar advice regarding a Uni position. (I am currently in the hunt for Fall semester starting).

for those of you who are/have been working Uni positions, what are some of the things to look for/request/watch out for/avoid???

Thanx in advance,

Glen

(ps - those that know me know I don't need to worry about qualifying for a position. I just need to know what makes a good Uni job here from a so-so or a bad one)

(pss - if anyone wants/needs to, please feel free to PM me, if you have a comment, but don't want to air it out in public)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
dutchman



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: My backyard

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Ok, advice on Uni contracts/conditions Reply with quote

gajackson1 wrote:


(ps - those that know me know I don't need to worry about qualifying for a position. I just need to know what makes a good Uni job here from a so-so or a bad one)



I don't know you. Can I still comment? Confused

The best indicator (IMHO) is the turnover rate. If they need to hire a whole new staff every year, obviously it sucks. Ask them.

Second thing to look at is the person who would be supervising you. Does he/she give you bad vibes? If so, RUN!

Then, make sure it's not a university language institute. If so, it's probably only marginally better than a hagwon job.

Hours, for a real university job you should only be working 12-16 hours a week.

Vacations, do they require you to teach during the vacations?

Office hours, how many are you required to do a week? Should be around 4-8 hours a week.

Salary, if you do privates (please don't respond about how privates are illegal) then the salary is not very important since the schedule and vacation time gives you plenty of opportunity to earn more. If not, you probably want a higher end salary job (2.2 to 2.5 mil maybe).

Housing, you don't want it. Do they offer a housing allowance? My uni doesn't but the conditions mentioned above are great so I don't care about the housing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rudyflyer



Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Location: pacing the cage

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dutchman makes some good points.

regarding univ language institutes 99% of unis have them. The question is then whether you will be teaching strictly in the institute. If so then dutchman is right its only margially better than a hogwon; though the first place we worked was that and it wasn't bad 5 weeks vacation and now they offer 10 weeks. Most likely you will do a combo of inst and univ courses which aint bad given the motivation of the univ students.

Couple of questions to ask in this regard:

1) do you get paid extra to do inst. classes? Some do and some don't. Where we are at now, if you teach more than 18 hours/week of univ classes then its extra money. If we go below that like whats possible this fall then we will have to.

2) Will I have to teach kids? Most have kids classes (we don't) but you may be able to opt out of doing kids if there are enough teachers

3) Teaching during semester breaks. As dutchman said some will require you to teach a combo of hogwon/intensive/camps/elementary teacher training programs. Will you get paid for these? For the elementary teacher programs you better, every place I've done them I've been paid extra. Some schools will say be available but if we don't need you, take the break off. Also if they don't need you see if they will OK you to teach somewhere else.

Housing-in Seoul univ provided housing is getting scarce. Out here in the hinterlands they are trying to put us in dorms with the kids in order to save money. That can be problematic if you like going out late as they will lock the doors at say midnight (there was another thread about this)

these are just a few of things we look at

hth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gajackson1



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Casa Chil, Sungai Besar, Sultanate of Brunei

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it - thanx you two. Thats a fine start.

So, how about lecturing positions? Class load (#s, level, etc.), office hours, assistant or no, etc. Thoughts???

G.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, how about lecturing positions? Class load (#s, level, etc.), office hours, assistant or no, etc. Thoughts???


Assistant? Likely not going to happen. Student #s? Maybe it varies from school to school but we average between 25-40 - 10-15 stop coming midway through the semester (at least at the less-celebrated institutions), so it ends up a managable size. Office hours also seems to vary - ours is 5 or 6 a week I think, though they're not strict about it. I'm usually in my office a lot more than that anyway.

The bigger variable is where in the country you want to teach. Jobs in Seoul are more difficult to get due to more competition, and may offer less money & benefits for more hours, and demand higher qualifications.

The language institute issue is a non-issue, unless you're talking about a position that's 100% university hogwon. At our school we do roughly 8-10 hrs/week of credit classes, and 8-10 of the "institute" classes, both adult and kid... Honestly, I like the kids classes more than I do the adult or uni classes. I only get one of these classes a semester, and the kids we get are (for some unknown reason) a whole lot better behaved than the ones I used to teach at a Seoul hogwon years ago. It really is a pleaure to teach them.

Vacation time is highly variable. The contract may say 5-7 weeks or more, but there will be much more unofficial vacation time than that. The next two weeks are a good example: I've already done exams in two of my three freshman classes. I do 2 hours of oral exams for the third on Wednesday. I also do two hours of "institute" placement interviews on two nights over the next two weeks. And I'll have to mark some papers I'm having another class pass in to me this Thursday. But that's it, for the next two weeks. Apart from that one 2 hr interview session next week, all of next week is free. And I have nothing today, or tomorrow, or Thursday (other than collecting the papers I mentioned above).

I'll go over to the office later this afternoon and do some marking, and maybe mop the floor, but that's it.

Good luck Glen!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should look for


15 hours for 1,6 with 2 months of vacation if you have a BA

and 15 hours for 2 million and four months with an MA

On top of this there should be housing or a housing allowance of about 200- 300 thousand per month.


dont forget severence while it may not be the law to give you severence private schools don't have to give it) It is an unwritten rule that you should get it. Any school that does not offer it is probably not going to be good to you in other ways.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dutchman



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: My backyard

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:


dont forget severence while it may not be the law to give you severence private schools don't have to give it) It is an unwritten rule that you should get it. Any school that does not offer it is probably not going to be good to you in other ways.


Mine doesn't offer it. I get 22 weeks paid vacation, a 3 day schedule, 6 two hour classes a week, my own private office, 2.2 mil a month, a great boss and it's in Seoul. Oh, and 8 out of the ten of us only have a BA. Do you think we are going to complain about not getting severance pay? Not likely.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rudyflyer



Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Location: pacing the cage

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neither does my school offer severance we pay into the private school pension fund, like dutchman I get around 22 weeks off figuring festivals, mts, picnics, 4 day workweeks, free LAN in my apt.

downsides, 12 sections/year of the same course no variety, locked doors at nite, unresponsive univ admin when it comes to living conditions for the foreign faculty amongst other problems

would I trade this for a hogwon????? Are you kidding
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Medic



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 22 week thing is pretty much standard. The two summer and winter vacations add up to 16 weeks. You also get chusok thrown in there, national holidays, university holidays, and festivals. You can also test your freshman classes the week before exam week to get them over and done with, so you and they are free after that.

Our university gives us privates as well. People ring up the English department for someone, so the profs come knocking on our doors. We can negotiate the rate as well, and we are allowed to keep all the procedes.

Rearanging the schedules is permissible, so many of us are able to block our classes so we can have as much free time as posible. We don't have office hours, and no supervisor. All that matters is that we get the grades in on time.

Housing is provided, and we are all put in our own self contained two bedroom apartments. Those of us in the campus apartments don't paye utilities. Those in the off campus appartments paye utilities.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Medic



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We also get the pension. I also know what it's like to get locked in at night. At my previous university I had my own room in the men's dormitory, and they actually chained the door both inside and outside. If there had been a fire there would have been a disaster.

A down side at our university is the lack of good English speaking students.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
gajackson1



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: Casa Chil, Sungai Besar, Sultanate of Brunei

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very helpful, all - I should be able to put something together from that.

Basically, I need to locate a job first, and then arrange off-campus housing. C will get a job after I do (somewhere close to me, either at the Uni hakwon/langlab or a nearby hakwon), and take the housing allowance there instead of housing. We will be living together; don't want to be working together as well, and neither of us like the idea of on-campus housing or curfews/chains.

The free time is more important than the scratch; I've had a pretty cushy salary the past 5 years, and have saved up quite a bit. Hopefully we can arrange things to both occasionally have blocks of free time, so we can travel or do CEd - like the TESOL course in Barcelona or BKK, or work on online degrees. Basically, we both want '75%'ers - 75% jobs timewise, with enough pay to keep us in a comfort zone for living, saving & traveling.

Again, thanks a million (not in won). Any additional thoughts or reccs for schools greatly appreciated - if you hear of anything, please let me know!

Regards,

Glen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Vollrath



Joined: 29 May 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys.. sorry to barge in on this conversation, but my interest has been piqued by this particular discussion of university jobs.. So exactly what ARE the normal requirements you must meet to get a university job? I'm in my 7th month of a 1 year contract at Kidsclub in Daegu and would be willing to put in another year at another hagwon (definitely NOT in Daegu though -- this place sucks..) if it meant I could then begin to look for a university job.. At the same time, I've been considering going back to school for my MA and wonder which is better: experience or the MA? Or is it just luck o' the draw/selling yourself successfully?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MA / MEd. No question. You might get a position with the 2 years of Kids Club experience. You WILL get a position with the MA.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:29 am    Post subject: Working at a Korean University Reply with quote

At my university, the foreign instructors must teach during the summer. Depending on the courses, the foreign instructors may get slightly more pay in the summer. They are also discouraged from taking winter vacations. It seems that foreign instructors that take vacations do not get contracts renewed. Foreign instructors can receive "permission" to take vacations if they do "favors" during the regular terms.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lawyertood



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Incheon and the World--working undercover for the MOJ

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glen,

Don't just look for ads on Dave's, on other job sites, or in the newspaper. Some schools advertise positions on their homepages. Good luck with the search.

As for the MA or BA+TESOL requirement....often being in the right place at the right time will land you a job at a university with only a BA. Sometimes teachers don't show up at the beginning of the semester leaving the school in a desperate situation. I know of a few cases like this. Of course, if you wait to the last minute you will be taking a big risk that nothing will be available.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> FAQ All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International