Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Anda]

Here is the contact details for Jeju so you could contact to get things sorted out.


Supervisor of Jeju province (POE #16)
Mr. Young-Oon Lee
Email: [email protected]

[CanEducator]

Another question for you, Anda- do you have an educated guess as to why Kyungsangbukdo is recruiting 34 EPIKS this year while Kyungsangnamdo is recruiting only 5 ? That's a big difference in numbers.
Most of the other provinces are posting 10-15, so numbers like 5 and 34 stand out.
Thanks.

[Mody Ba]

Adventureman,the word from the supervisor,Mr.Lee himself, is that 30 EPIKs have been hired for Jejudo.This is right out of his mouth.I happen to have met him and tossed back a few glasses of soju.No,I am not pretending I am a bigshot or I am an expert on EPIK or anything like that.That is just the way it is. Now,30 have been HIRED.Of course(and especially knowing EPIK) that DOES NOT MEAN that 30 will actually show up.Some of the 30 may change their minds(especially after they get into "orientation" ) and decide to leave.Some may never even show up for orientation.Some may quit for other reasons.

The relatively large number of 30 may be because they expect a certain amount of attrition(HIRE 30,and maybe 12 will actually stay...although who knows how many will actually stay...nobody knows at this point)

There may also be a darker, more devious,reason for "hiring" the large number.They may be planning to do a little"weeding out"themselves.I would not put it past them.I am not saying this is a fact,but it is something to keep in mind.

Personally,I have not been able to get any set answers on housing,etc,out of him.Good luck to anyone else.They can be evasive.

By the way,Adventureman,I am not currently in Jejudo,I am trying to check out the situation for a friend who is going there.Also,Adventureman,your idea to refuse any substandard housing which does not meet your approval is an EXCELLENT one! Just be sure you do it from the very beginning,from the get-go.They might very well try to BS you with a homestay or other substandard housing saying "it is only temporary".I suggest you refuse it,even for one day.Once they have you in there,they think they can keep you there.Yes,I am very well acquainted with the sorry contract and all it says about the EPIK supposed to accept "temporary" housing.Personally, Adventureman,I would suggest you refuse anyway.Stand up for yourself,or they will run roughshod all over you.I think Anda can concur on that .

CanEducator,there may be several reasons why some provinces hire small numbers and others large numbers.And you are right, this sticks out like a red flag.Some provinces may actually need more EPIKs.On the other hand,as I stated previously,it might just be to account for expected attrition or perhaps they intend to do a little weeding out.

By the way,the EPIK website is http//epik.knue.ac.kr You can get the info on any of the provincial supervisors(their emails,etc.) from that site.

Good luck to all of you,especially the newbies.Take care of yourselves and stand up for your rights.You deserve fair treatment.

[Anda]

Kyungsangbukdo has a very good EPIK supervisor at present who is pushing the program. The ones with small requests I think you would find haven't got much interest in getting foreign teachers. For the last few years EPIK has only averaged something like sixty to seventy new teachers a year so no region is going to have that many teachers still with them except a couple who recruit separately like Chollanamdo.

What Mody Ba has said on accommodation above is correct. Never move in the door of a dump or you will find it ten times harder to get somewhere decent. For instance when I first started with EPIK I shared for one month with an EPIK who was moving to another area to work. Then a month later after he left they put another EPIK in with me. This new EPIK had moved from another city in the same provience and when he arrived he told me that he would be out in a couple of weeks as he had been promised a place of his own. He had a promise from the main Education office plus the local office of education. Result two months later after putting in his notice they got him a place of his own overnight. Oh, and on a funny note I had moved into the main bedroom in the apartment that had it's own toilet and shower and when the other EPIK arrived and started to remind them of their promise they tried to get me to move out of the main bedroom for the other EPIK. You see they looked on the main bedroom as being self contained. Ho,ho I just told them to go to hell or find someone to replace me with as I had dibs on the main bedroom. Korea isn't a place for the weak. Um, I've only shared for three months in four and a half years with EPIK. Very few share these days and then nearly always if they do share it's in a city. Some cities like Kwangju have all their EPIKS nowadays in single accommodation.

I find that car machanics are honest here along with tradesmen but those in goverment positions of power or big business watch out.

[adventureman]

The EPIK website and my contract are telling conflicting stories already! On the website the aforementioned Mr. Lee is listed as the POE supervisor. However, on my contract, on the space where the employer's signature goes, the only name listed is Tae Hyuk Kim and underneath the line it lists him as 'Superintendent of Jeju POE' Interesting... Anybody know who THIS person is and if he shares any relation to Mr. Lee???

By the way Mody Ba the whole 'stubborness in getting what deserve' thing will be a lot easier if EVERYBODY in our 'crew' who's screwed over in even the slightest way goes along with me once we get our placements. Ya need more than a pebble to create an avalanche right?

[Austin]

Adventureguy,

I have PMd you a few times to answer a few of your questions, but this one needs to go out to all that are considering what you just posted:

[Mody Ba]

Adventureman(and others)...you would be well advised to completely ignore SCSA(aka Poppin Fresh,The Pillsbury Doughboy).This guy is a well-known EPIK apologist from way back...dating back to the old forum.

Besides that,at least half the time people cannot decipher what the HELL he is saying(e.g."The inheritance is alive and well"...WHAT inheritance?WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU BABBLING ABOUT,DOUGHBOY?"

Yeah,he sent me a PM too,which I promptly deleted. You might think I have some personal vendetta against the guy,but I don't. If he is not really management,then he is a management sympathizer.

If you do not want to listen to me on the issue,at least listen to Anda.Unlike Doughboy, Anda knows what he is talking about.
DB...better get back in the kitchen and bake some more offerings for your principal.There is a good word for that....
Moseley refers to him as "King Rat" Actually,I like my choice of nicknames for him better...but maybe we could compromise and call him the "Pillsbury Rat".

Seriously,Adventureman(and others)...at least listen to Anda,not SCSA!

[adventureman]

What you said about everyone having different backgrounds and only looking for out for your own best interests is true to certain degree, Austin, but at the same time the main thing I was talking about when I made that statement was the housing situation. The contract states that ALL EPIKS are guranteed an apartment style housing (I would not have joined if they stuck you in homestay for the entire year like that stupid Fulbright program) regardles of background, education, etc. I personally feel it is unfair to rip someone of that privilage when it is an agreement that has been reached by both parties ahead of time and then proceed to take advantage of them by sticking them in substandard housing or a homestay and not addressing the concern until that person is ready to walk out like the posters above said has been happened in the best. I don't have that mentality about everything regarding EPIK I just feel this particualr issue is unethical and this is a problem with EPIK that would have a better chance of getting ammended if more than one person didn't settle on bad housing. Aren't you all for joining the EPIK program to help improve it? Here is a perfect opportunity to do this just with a paramount problem that should not even be an issue if EPIK hopes to thrive as a program...


All the best

P.S. Irregardless of other's people situations, if I am stuck with with crap housing you can guarantee I will still be in there fighting for my OWN ass. It just might be a little easier if I had a few other people in there fighting with me for "group support..." Kind of like "A.A." ...

[Austin]

Adventureman (Sam),

Again, I believe the program is adequate the way it is, so long as you understand it. I do not see the need to champion a cause to improve the system throughout the country, but I will be doing my part to affect a positive improvement were I am.

I appreciate your intentions, but I would use caution. Moreover, there are recruits that initially think that they will be perfectly content with homestays or shared housing and then later change their minds, so expecting that every recruit is going to want the same thing is not exactly accurate.

[Mody Ba]

You have the right idea! Cover your own hiney.Unfortunately,they do not always do what is fair(or even contractual).And when they do not,they will say something like "Oh well,it is a different culture".Yeah,blah.blah.
generally speaking,a contract over here does not carry the force that one in many western societies does(especailly if they are intent on breaching it).

Anyway,Adventureman,you have the right idea! Cover yourself!Sure, SCSA is going to tell you to be cautious.If you get crap housing,it will be YOU that suffers,not SCSA.Apparently he is content with whatever he has,does not give a damn about anyone else,and is content to try and cook up apple pies for his principal."King RAT"

Adventureman,cover yourself.If you don't, they will run roughshod all over you.If you do your job and honor the contract,they should honor it too.Best of luck to you.

[long-term-player]

The accommodation: Some CURIOUS things are happening>

The EPIK web site says this about accommodation:
""A leased house/apartment as well as some basic household goods will be provided by the host POE. Utilities are not included and are the responsibility of the employee. Employees should recognize that arrangements may vary among each host institution""

But the New 2003 contract that was on the Epik homepage (I can't find it now - but is on efl-law.com) says this -:
""Article 12 (Housing) (1) Employer shall provide Employee with housing selected by Employer. Housing selected by Employer may be, including but not limited to, a leased house, a studio-type room, or an apartment. Any and all fees, charges, costs, taxes, expenses, etc. incurred in using the housing shall be borne by Employee."

The 2003 change is ""a studio type room.."
Well I know 2 EPIKs who got stuck in 'studio type rooms' this March and these rooms are for DOGS and the like. I suspect Epik is pulling a quiet shifty here - (only a feeling - that the accommodation budget has been slashed) and EPIKs will find the 4 wall no window apartments more common - and it is IN your contract - so arguing will not help.. I suspect we should monitor this change and see what happens,,,

[Mody Ba]

I agree.They might very well be trying to pull a slick fastie on the housing by inserting that 'studio-room" thing.I think long-termer could very well be right.It might be for budget reasons...or other reasons.And true...arguing will not do much good....but refusing(from the very beginning) to move into some windowless rat trap might do some good.STAND UP for yourselves,guys.Their intentions(unfortunately) are not always exactly honorable.Of course, some people like SCSA already have housing they are content with,so they try to tell other people not to complain.

[Mosley]

Yep. That's me. Pink. Red. Socialist. Leftist. Revolutionary. All because I'd push for a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD (a very neo-con concept, BTW) for all EPIKs. Read my posts on the "Off-Topic" Forum, King Doughboy, and you'll see that I'm to the right of Reagan....

[Austin]

Under Article 12, section 1, the contract states that the "housing selected by the Employer may be, including but not limited to a leased house, a studio-type room, or an apartment." The key phrase is the "not limited to," which can mean absolutely anything, like a homestay, love motel, etc. Moreover, under the same article, section 3, it covers for temporary housing until appropriate housing becomes available, which it might never become available for the duration of your contract (in other words, that is where you are going to stay). Better yet, the employer can decide whether or not to provide housing for you or simply provide you with a stipend of 300,000 won.

If you understand the wording in Korean of Article 12 (which overrides the English translation), you will understand that anything they provide will fulfill the requirements of the contract. Those of you that are signing the contract with the above, do not come complaining later, as it is clearly stated in Korean in your contract.

Whether you like the housing or not is an entirely different matter.

As far as for a establishing a level playing field, you are going to have to begin with inheritance, genes, DNA, etc. To expect something as lofty as that from EPIK, when it does not exist anywhere else in the world is very unreasonable.

SCSA

[Anda]

This bad accommodation thing isn't that common with EPIK. It is no good coming here thinking that you will get luxury but I've been lucky so far. I have heard and know of some not so lucky with EPIK but as I keep saying it is the exception not the rule. Remember that you can get paid 300,000 won a month extra and find your own accommodation.

I know of only one person personally who got a home stay and loved it and that was a Canadian woman by the name of Mary Kibby in Kwang-ju. A couple of others got home stays for a short period before at the begining of the program. A studio-type room: studio apartment comes with a toilet shower and a small kitchen area that is in the corner of a large room that usually has a bed with kitchen type table. This type of accommodation is getting more common with universities etc these days and isn't that bad all said and done.

In all my time here I have only heard of one group of EPIKS who refused to teach during the school holidays at a teacher training center without extra pay and succeded in getting paid. Others under other Education offices didn't get paid any extra at the time. New contracts after this were rewritten to say that no extra pay had to be paid. Some education offices got smart and did pay some extra to get more effort out of their foreign teachers. Korean teachers were getting paid extra but we weren't.

If you are fool enough to try to start getting other EPIKS to complain jointly then none of you will be offered re-contracting. You are also unlikely to get what you fight for.

Untill you have proved yourself as a teacher you have little in the way of bargining power. If you are popular as a teacher then you can ask for a better deal or help on some matter and it is likely that you will get what you want providing it is a fair request. If you have to stand your ground on accommodation before you start then you need to put in more effort to regain lost ground / popularity with your school. Korean teachers who get posted to out of the way schools don't complain if they are provided with poor accommodation. Usually they pay for and find their own accommodation.

The proper way (expected behaviour) is for you to request something to your main Korean co-teacher. If she / he thinks it's a fair request they will pass it on to either a head teacher or the school's vice principal. The vice principal will then bring it before the Schools principal if he / she thinks it's a reasonable request. Your school's principal will make a decision either way and that's it. Your school's principal has more power / a higher position, than an EPIK supervisor.

If you are having trouble with your school then you can contact your EPIK supervisor and they might arrange to transfer you to another school. This is fairly rare but it does happen.

EPIK at KNUE don't do anything for you once you finish the induction course so don't get stupid ideas that they are there to assist you as they won't plain and simple.