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Ohhhhh......EPIK!!!!
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adventureman



Joined: 18 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a little curious too, Mody Ba, as to why throughout all your posts you have criticized the EPIK head officials for being overly bearucratic, racist, and anti-foriegner, and yet you have made mention of "putting back glasses of soju" with those very same people!

Hope you're not a boot licker in real life like our friend, Mr. "warm apple pie" man!..... Laughing
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Mosley



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A-man, I might know who Mody Ba is, and if I'm right I can assure you he's the antithesis of a bootlicker. You also don't know much about a Korean public school environment if you think it's rare to share soju w/bureaucrats. At those drunken sessions, slobbering drunks practically molest you in pseudo-affection, assuring you about how much they "love you." Come Monday morn, those same fine gents don't give two sweet ones about your late pay, the rat in your apartment, breaches of contract, etc.If you're looking for bootlickers, go back to King Rat, King of Kwangju(such modesty), etc. Anda? Well, who knows....
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long-term-player



Joined: 10 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:16 am    Post subject: OPINIONS PLEASE 2.2 Million or 2.1 million??? Reply with quote

Three of us went to the Office to sign our Epik contract today. Mine begins in mid July and two others on August 1st.

As we were filling in the details, we wrote 2.2 million for the salary (we are level 1s) BUT we were TOLD we had to write 2.1 million!!!!!!!!! WHY we asked when the Epik website promises 2,2 million!!! Our supervisor rang his colleague in another Epik province and came back with the answer ~~
Answer: ONLY from September 25th,, We will alter your contracts then!!!

I am not sure what to think, but I think it is wrong and Epik (or our little POE) is being dishonest or wrong or misguided... (I mean how can they advertise 2.2 million then offer 2.1, even for one month) I await others opinion- before Action commences Monday -
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Anda



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:22 am    Post subject: Um Reply with quote

A number of things are not looking as promised on the new contract so things remain to be seen. I have never had any trouble in getting pay raisers during my contracted period.

long-term-player you look like you will be two months into your new contract before your pay goes up for your third pay packet.

According to EPIK the new pay rise doesn't become effective untill after August. The following are the differences between what EPIK promisers and what is written on the online contract according to EFL law.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The EPIK Contract

EPIK contract analyzed | EPIK red zone | contract home

This is the contract to take effect after August 2003. It was posted to the EPIK website on or about the 27th January 2003.
We note some curious events. The home page lists the changes and benefits to the 'new' contract as being, (a) increase in salary for Level 1 EPIKs, an allowance to some rural EPIKs, increased annual leave of 'two weeks,' plus the Employee to pay 50% of the Medical Insurance premium.

However, the on-line contract differs in that, (a) the Employer pays 100% Medical insurance premium,Article 13 (2)and (b) the annual leave is still the same as previous contracts namely 2 weeks. (though Article 10 (2) and Article 14 need some clear clarification as to whether the total vacation time is 14 working days (Art. 14) plus 'two weeks home leave,' Article 10.2., or otherwise.

We shall observe to see what changes, if any, occur to match the web site promises to the written contract.

On or about February 3rd 2003, the EPIK contract changed to indicate that in fact EPIK would pay only 50% of the Medical Insurance Contribution. Yet the subsequent unchanged wording suggests that EPIK is still paying 100% of an EPIK's family (if in Korea) contribution. This is confusing.

http://efl-law.com/epikcont.html
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long-term-player



Joined: 10 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:16 am    Post subject: Sneaky changes afoot?? Reply with quote

Anda, I hate it when you are right!! But could we not say that if they make us wait three months to get a pay rise, that is really a sad indictment of our employer - or am I expecting our employer to be just a tad generous when in fact they can go 'strictly by the contract?'

BUT a change in the 2003 Contract (i got today) is worth noting - and again I call for opinions - what does this mean???

2002 contract -Article 5 (2) This employment period is not a continuance and should not be considered as continuance of any former employment in other city / province."

2003 contract - Article 5 (2) ...same as above BUT followed by "HENCE, EMPLOYER SHALL HIRE EMPLOYEE AS A NEW ELI, COMMEMCING ON.......... 2003"

What is EPIK sneaking in here? I donít think they would add these words (in Korean too) unless they had some reason??? Thoughts gentlemen??

(a) could it be to stop any Long serving EPIK (some around) from claiming tenure as is being argued by some university teachers?
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Anda



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:35 am    Post subject: Um. Reply with quote

Um, it should mean that they will have to give us severance pay at the end of each contract but of course they would argue straight off, that they don't. Actually I think it has been somewhere in our contracts in the past.

EPIK is what it is. I can't see it changing much. I'm accepted at my school and I think at this stage I've got a permanent position but of course Dear Leader (um, I'm not sure which one) will stuff it up for me. Korean schools have a lot of drama going on all the time. Its a numbers game where for one reason all another you either gain acceptance or you don't. We are no different from our co-teachers in this game.
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Mody Ba



Joined: 22 May 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:25 pm    Post subject: Responses to A-Man and Anda Reply with quote

No,Adventureman, I can assure you that I am NOT a "bootlicker". Putting back a few glasses of soju with an official does not necessarily make one a bootlicker. I am not a bootlicker,but it is pretty hard to refuse when someone invites you for a drink or two or out to a meal. I LIKE Korea,and even some of the bureaucrats are not bad people,personally.That is not bootlicking.It is just getting along, day by day, like we all have to do.

Anda,your suggestion that I give one month's notice if I do not like conditions here is the old' If you don't like it, well JUST LEAVE" song.Frankly,Anda,I am a little surprised you would pull that old one out.Surely you can come up with a more original retort than that?

And, unlike Anda,I in no way pretend I speak for all EPIKS . Nor do I pretend that I am privy to all housing conditions of all EPIKS everywhere in Korea. I could tell you that there have been problems in Chungnam Province.Of course,I am not saying EVERYONE in Chungnam Province has had housing problems.But some have had problems.Satisfied, Anda?I posted one area where there are problems.Unlike Anda, I do not try to get up on a soapbox and pretend to speak for all EPIKs all over Korea.Frankly,I do not KNOW about conditions in other provinces,so I am not going to say anything about them.
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Anda



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:30 pm    Post subject: Um Reply with quote

Um, I didn't say leave EPIK but seeing that it is near impossible to transfer between main regional educational offices, it is easier to give notice to your current Educational office, finish up and then apply to the Education office, school whatever where you want to work here in Korea. I have worked under three regional educational offices here now.

Never leave one educational office without asking for and getting an official stamped record of your working time under the educationl office where you work. This can effect your pay level under the new office and is a lot more easy than going through proving you are level one material, all over again.

Oh, and I am not on a soapbox. I have been watching what others have posted on EPIK here on Dave's for four years. I have also been fighting for four years to get back some of our lost conditions that we used to have with EPIK.

At the moment we can choose between taking the accommodation they offer in EPIK or taking the 300,000 won a month option. If EPIKS come onto Dave's and complain, complain, complain on the accommodation provided, then EPIK is likely to stop providing accommodation all together and just give us 300,000 won a month towards finding our own place. This would be a downhill thing for most in EPIK. Complaining all the time here on Dave's on a condition that can't be standardized is counter productive in general for us. If many in your region are being given poor accommodation then exposing what your EPIK supervisor is allowing to happen is okay but not the whole program. The accommodation thing is as stated before between you and your local town educational office. Your EPIK supervisor can assist by speaking with them. If they don't improve your accommodation then you can ask your EPIK supervisor to move you to another school under a different education office. That is about the limit of what you can get done.
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Mody Ba



Joined: 22 May 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:18 pm    Post subject: Housing is A Valid Issue Reply with quote

Anda states that if EPIKs come pn Dave's and "complain.complain,complain"..that EPIK might do away with the accommodation altogether. I do not agree woth him.What are we supposed to do...stop complaining? Sounds like a bit of a threat tp me.

To be objective,Anda has provided some excellent advice on this board in the past,and I have posted and congratulated him on that excellent advice.

HOWEVER,apparently Anda(and at least some of his friends and cohorts) are satisfied with their housing,and it really sounds like they expect people who are NOT happy to shut up.

Personally,I think NOT complaining is not a solution and may even make the situation worse.For those who are happy with their housing,hey, great.They should not expect everybody else to shut up and go away just because Anda and other people do not have a beef about the housing.

It is a problem for some EPIKs(again I am not saying all or even most EPIKs,because I have no way of getting exact figures)
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Seoul Skye



Joined: 28 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:48 pm    Post subject: Advice for New EPIKs Reply with quote

1) Start your own Yahoo Group and maintian close communication.

The Provincial Supervisors meet reguarly and if they realize that all of you are in communication with each other, they will treat you with more care. For more details as to why this is true, check out the archives and read the story about pension withdrawal from EPIK teachers salaries in 1996. Depending on the province an EPIK taught in, their pension contribution (with held from their salary on a monthly basis) varied from the legal 2% to 15%. That practiced stopped when one of the EPIKs wrote to then President Kim Young-Sam's Appeals Office. The only help the KNUE EPIK office gave to the program teachers back then came from one of the departing office staff who supplied the fax number for the presidential appeals office. Forget even calling those useless creatures after you've left KNUE.

2) On your first day at your teaching assignment, tell your Korean co-teachers that since Korean culture is so interesting but quite different from your own, you're sure that you're going to make social/cultural mistakes and that you hope that they will feel comfortable in advising you of your gaffs and educating on the correct forms.

IT WORKS in easing tensions and paving the way to satisfying work relationships.

3) Remember that this is the country of "If my cousin buys a new field my stomach will feel empty" so don't complain too much about the little stuff. Believe it or not, in many ways you will have it easier than your Korean colleagues so a bit of jealousy on their part may make an appearance from time to time. Try to get a feel for how your school works and the realtionship dynamics between the vice-principal and English Dept. before choosing the battles that you're going to fight. In other words, to sound a tad Machiavellian, find out which Korean English teacher seems to be the leader and get to know him/her. A solid realtionship with the afore mentioned can make the difference between a great teaching experience and hell in Korea.
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Austin



Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: In the kitchen

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:07 pm    Post subject: Thank you... Reply with quote

I appreciate you reiterating what I have been saying all along. Mach is timeless.

Take your pick:

Quote:
Imitation is the sincerest of flattery.


Quote:
By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.


Quote:
I hardly know so true a mark of a little mind as the servile imitation of others.
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Medic



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are sure lucky that you have advice coming in from all quarters, and good advice too. Was an Epik teacher long ago, but now am at a university, and sure as hell wish all universities were interconnected like your schol districts are.
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Mosley



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Austin(what happened to SCSA, doughboy?): Pucker up, baby!!
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Mody Ba



Joined: 22 May 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 1:15 pm    Post subject: Ratboy and His Silly Maunderings...Response to Long Termer Reply with quote

Mosley, the poor boy,(SCSA ) had a BAD day in the kitchen.He whipped up a tasty souffle to take to his principal, but it fell, and ohmigod...the loss of face!

If anyone needs any more evidence of EPIK's devious machinations, they need only to read long termer's comments regarding their deviousness.I am sympathetic to long-termer and the other people that had that stunt (involving the 2.2 mill) pulled on them."Yes,the contract states CLEARLY 2,2, mill.But not NOW guys! Later!"Ohmigod! A material breach of contract if there ever was one.

One big problem with EPIK, including a lot of the local "officials" is that they are cheap b------s. They want a program(well, even THAT is not one hundred per cent sure, but anyway....) to rival Japan's JET...but they want a program on the cheap.They do not want to spend the time,energy and money necessary to have a good program.And in some cases, it is pretty obvious they are intent on chiseling the EPIK teachers.

Hey,you do not just have to take my word for that...look at posts from people like long-termer.James H.,etc. And nobody really takes the sometimes amusing maunderings of Ratboy seriously.

Local officials will sometimes commit a material breach of the EPIK contract with no qualms at all("I think the contract is not so important") when the breach is in their favor.However,they are also ready to point out that the EPIK should honor the contract when honoring the contract is in their favor.Duplicity? Double standards? You bet! Rolling Eyes
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long-term-player



Joined: 10 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We went to the Labor Office and asked them what they thought about POEs not paying 2.2 million from when we signed our contract (July August) and how Epik only wants to pay from September 25th.

We showed them the contract entitled:

2003
CONTRACT FOR 2003 ENGLISH PROGRAM IN KOREA

(a) Showed them we signed it and begins shortly.
(b) showed them the web site that says September for the new recruits.

They said the contract is clearly marked 2003, the website says 2003 contracts are 2.2 million, and that they must pay EPIKs who sign a 2003 contract for 2003, whenever it is 2.2 million. They said new recruits clearly begin in September so they get 2.3 from them, but we begin earlier so the 2003 rules apply from the time of signing.

Rather than put us in the bad books before the new contract even starts, we wrote to efl-law.com to ask if they will write to Epik and raise the issue, as they seem to get answers whilst we get either mistruths or wrong interpretations.
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