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Hard looks!
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Korea Newfie



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Newfoundland and Labrador

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ody wrote:
my husband (korean) just joined us here after living in ny/nj for 12 years...he doesn't fit these horrid descriptions of korean men

Perhaps related to his 12 years in ny/nj?

Ody wrote:
he mentioned how changed foreigners are from what he remembers, that they are far less friendly than they used to be (they were in Route66).

Yeah, I imagine 12 years ago foreigners were much nicer. Koreans probably weren't chanting, ****ing USA either... Just a guess.

Ody wrote:
i promptly advised him to steer clear of foreigners, that they'll just assume he's some joe with bad english who wants to practice on them, and thus give a cold shoulder. i learned that from you folks. too bad isn't it?


Unfortunately, that's often the case. When I'm approached by strangers, I find myself making a quick assessment as to their motives. Many Koreans see us as walking English lessons. It sucks that many foreigners think all Koreans are thinking this, but you seem to think it doesn't happen.

I love making new friends, but here's a situation which has come up more than once: I meet people who want to be friends. They suggest meeting to eat, drink, and speak English. Maybe they can bring along their book so they can ask me questions? When I say sure, that's a good idea, because I have some questions of my own about Korean grammar, they say, "But you're an English teacher, I'm not a Korean teacher." What the heck is that?

Ody, I think advising your husband to avoid all foreigners is doing him a disservice.
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HardyandTiny



Joined: 03 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Hard looks! Reply with quote

ThreeDogNight wrote:
I just want to know, what are with all the hard looks?
Everytime I pass a Korean Guy, their chins are in the air. Some even imply, "I'm the best!" I humbly reply, "Kiss my ass!"
Am I wrong, or they?


I think most of those guys are either hungover from the night before or just starting to heat up on their first bottle of soju.
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PatrickSiheung



Joined: 21 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember when I first arrived here.... I, like many of you I'm sure, were quite happy with how foreign men were received by many Korean women Smile I mean, I was never this handsome in Canada LOL
Anyway, so I thought it was fun to go out on dates and just meet people. I was warned by my directors that many girls would just want to use me for English practice. I didn't take that to heart until one date...
We went out for dinner and after coffee.... at the cafe she pulls out her notebook and asks me to help her with an English paper. Well I was surprised and didn't know how to refuse. So sure enough, I end up writing practically the whole paper for her. I was kinda happy to help at the time. But when I didn't hear from her again. Well I felt pretty p*ssed. >< Little wiser now.

But anyway... people are misused all over the world. I agree that in the US the racism can be much worse and much more dangerous. But I said CAN be. It's no less dangerous here. A fellow teacher got jumped by about 10 Koreans last month. I couldn't believe his story but he had many many bruises and cuts to prove it. It's a terrible thing, no matter who it happens to.
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newfie said:

"Unfortunately, that's often the case. When I'm approached by strangers, I find myself making a quick assessment as to their motives. Many Koreans see us as walking English lessons. It sucks that many foreigners think all Koreans are thinking this, but you seem to think it doesn't happen. "

When I try to use my very bad few Korean words, people here are very helpful and patient. Those of us learning Korean impose ourselves on store clerks, taxi drivers, the ajuma at the market, and restaurant workers all of the time. They are our collective teachers. Most don't ask me for reciprocal English lessons. But if someone wants some help, I help, and it feels like a collective trade.
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Ody



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korea Newfie wrote:
Ody wrote:
my husband (korean) just joined us here after living in ny/nj for 12 years...he doesn't fit these horrid descriptions of korean men

Perhaps related to his 12 years in ny/nj?


maybe, but who my husband is, is very much korean - old school korean. his own expectations of his culture are frozen in time, koreans were more conservative in 1990, yes?

Ody wrote:
he mentioned how changed foreigners are from what he remembers, that they are far less friendly than they used to be (they were in Route66).
Yeah, I imagine 12 years ago foreigners were much nicer. Koreans probably weren't chanting, ****ing USA either... Just a guess.


no,no. now really, these are still isolated incidents. not everyday occurrences waiting for us wherever we go. don't you think anti-american sentiment inconveniences westerners living abroad in many parts of the world? these are trying times.

Korea Newfie wrote:
Ody wrote:
i promptly advised him to steer clear of foreigners, that they'll just assume he's some joe with bad english who wants to practice on them, and thus give a cold shoulder. i learned that from you folks. too bad isn't it?


Unfortunately, that's often the case. When I'm approached by strangers, I find myself making a quick assessment as to their motives. Many Koreans see us as walking English lessons. It sucks that many foreigners think all Koreans are thinking this, but you seem to think it doesn't happen.


these quick assessments are usually drawn from a superior standpoint. this is a mistake.

Korea Newfie wrote:
I love making new friends, but here's a situation which has come up more than once: I meet people who want to be friends. They suggest meeting to eat, drink, and speak English. Maybe they can bring along their book so they can ask me questions? When I say sure, that's a good idea, because I have some questions of my own about Korean grammar, they say, "But you're an English teacher, I'm not a Korean teacher." What the heck is that?

Ody, I think advising your husband to avoid all foreigners is doing him a disservice.


yes, and it's doing you guys a disservice as well. my husband is not a big talker, but when drawn out to comment on art, politics, sports (etc.), he has substantive observations to offer that are fresh and cutting edge. maybe not many korean men are so interesting but you know what, not so many western men are either.
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weatherman



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Hard looks! Reply with quote

ThreeDogNight wrote:
I just want to know, what are with all the hard looks?
Everytime I pass a Korean Guy, their chins are in the air. Some even imply, "I'm the best!" I humbly reply, "Kiss my ass!"
Am I wrong, or they?



This is always a funny situation. I give it right back, with the hiss and all too. If I can, I change the course of my walk, I often make a bee line for them, looking them all over. I want them know that I think their behavior is crap, and I will give it back. Sometimes I even stop and look at them. Nothing has ever happened..... and dudes smoking infront of the go-shi-won that I walk by everyday, don't even look at me now.
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maryk



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: I was up above it, now i'm down in it

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hard looks from korean men...easy.

if you're a man, give a wink and blow him a big kiss. he'll freeze up, guaranteed. you know the gaydar on adjoshis is in negative territory anyway, so they've likely never seen it before and have no idea how to distinguish sarcasm from a real live homersexual. they also have no idea how to respond, as i'm sure they're vacillating between repulsion and rage, but can't decide if it's worth getting AIDS by confronting a queen. they usually just stand there shell-shocked, like someone just told them their favorite korean actress married a GI.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you get jumped as a male teacher, its probably because you dress like sh**, openly go mad after all the korean women,or some other insensitive type of behavior.
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me I have experienced and seen this behavior. I have seen the tough acting Korean men. I usually just look shrug my shoulders and go on - maybe cross the street to avoid a confrontation. But you get this behavior everywhere in the world the body language may be different but it as sort of I am a mean SOB. Most morons in the world who take that pose are simply poser and wanabee gangsters.

I have also had the sucking in of air and the profanity and a few instances of spitting behind me - I think never on me just near me. This instances usually happen with younger korean men.

As to the sucking of air sometimes that is not a predicliction to swearing - it's a part of how some people speak at time it is like making a hard letter or making a point.

But people this is not all of Korea it is a very small part of what you will ever experience.

But my advice is if you are ever spit on and on purpose - go for the throat and give no ground.

Skippy the Evil Twin Twisted Evil
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ThreeDogNight



Joined: 30 May 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cube wrote:
I hate to answer this, but it's antagonizing. You're not being paranoid.

The hissing sound is actually the start of a Korean profanity.
The word is "shee-bbal" or "sheep-sae-ggi" which means "*other*ucker" in English. The sucking sound is another clear sound of contempt.

My favorite is when they see me and immediately spit on the ground. Almost like a reflex reaction.

I don't let it get to me. I'm rude in public here. Back home, mutual politeness puts a good feeling in you. Here, mutual rudeness helps you get the negative energy out. Either way suits me fine. You'd be surprised how good it feels to butt in front of a Korean.


Cube, don't be upset about what was said about your comment. It's right on the money.

Sounds like some people have real experience here. The others. . .

Letting out the negative energy is something I've always thought was necessary too. It makes me feel a little guilty, but it's does make you feel better. I'll take your advice to heart.

The spitting I've experienced too, which just goes to show, this isn't in my mind nor a form of prejudicial thinking from us like some wannabes said here. No, the USA and the West don't have this same sense of rudeness. I just went back, and found it 100 percent kinder in every way.

So much for the woman married to a Korean man, but I hate when people try to say the same crap that prejudice and discrimmination exist everywhere and da, da, da. . .
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The Cube



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..

Last edited by The Cube on Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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Ody



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThreeDogNight wrote:
[
The spitting I've experienced too, which just goes to show, this isn't in my mind nor a form of prejudicial thinking from us like some wannabes said here. No, the USA and the West don't have this same sense of rudeness. I just went back, and found it 100 percent kinder in every way.

So much for the woman married to a Korean man, but I hate when people try to say the same crap that prejudice and discrimmination exist everywhere and da, da, da. . .



Edit: defensive retort removed

i didn't say anything to directly oppose. mine was a post sharing my own experience. experience that is as valid as yours or anyone’s.

Edit: maybe it depends on where you are. i know that in our case (stateside) the treatment was different according to what kind of neighborhood we're in. several factors are involved, the first is the economic station of the offender, 2nd is the race, and third is how long the offender has been in the states, living under oppressed conditions.


Last edited by Ody on Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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mongrel



Joined: 29 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:06 pm    Post subject: hard looks Reply with quote

I'd have to agree with the people that advocate the stare back routine. I've been here 2 years (not claiming to be a guru), and I still can't stomach it, although if I'm in a good mood I don't notice as much. I think you could put it down to a little insecurity, or being a bit defensive. If you were totally confident, you wouldn't care, but who is, I mean, who doesn't have their little insecurities? Having said that, staring is a very intimidating thing to do to someone. Personally, I have little respect for Korean men (generalisation I know). They are waited on hand and foot their whole life, and are always drinking or whoring. Why do they have such a tough life? Everyone has their problems. Koreans seem to love wallowing i.e. dramas and ballads........ puke! The macho thing makes me laugh. I've had a few situations with my Korean g/f that have got to the point that I've confronted the guy that's clearly making his opinions known about her and I, and he always backs down. They like to try to intimidate, but can't actually follow through. Maybe they go home and take it out on their wife, someone they know they can bully. How many women have you seen with shiners?
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Manner of Speaking



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cube wrote:
My favorite is when they see me and immediately spit on the ground. Almost like a reflex reaction.

I think of it as a good luck gesture. If I walk down the street and they spit after I walk by, I just bend over slightly and spit too.

Nice and loud. So they can hear me.
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mokpochica



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultude wrote:
When I try to use my very bad few Korean words, people here are very helpful and patient. Those of us learning Korean impose ourselves on store clerks, taxi drivers, the ajuma at the market, and restaurant workers all of the time. They are our collective teachers. Most don't ask me for reciprocal English lessons. But if someone wants some help, I help, and it feels like a collective trade.


This is absolutely true. I have learned a lot of Korean from a lot of different people. I do spend quite a bit of time teaching/speaking English, but I've actually found that most people only want to do that in pretty formal situations.

When I see Koreans outside of class situations and they want to speak English with me, 90% of the time it's because they just want to talk with me and their English is better than my Korean. When my Korean is better than their English they almost always switch to speaking Korean with me.

I've found that a lot of people here are just curious about people from other countries in general. I can understand that. Even though I come from the U.S., it wasn't like I was meeting 'foreigners' every day and so I have always been interested in meeting people from foreign countries and talking with them. When I went home to the U.S. and saw Koreans or native-Spanish speakers I really wanted to practice Korean/Spanish with them and get to know them, but in many cases I was too shy to approach them. I probably missed a few opportunities to meet interesting people/friends by being too scared of stepping on someone's toes. In that regard, I admire some Korean people who have the guts to approach someone and start a pleasant conversation with them.

It seems counterproductive to say that "Koreans don't understand us. They are so rude to foreigners. they are close-minded, etc" And then just go and close yourself off to them. I've had experiences with rude students and rude people. I've caught kids writing 'f*cking U.S.A" on the desks when I'm teaching lessons--and you know what? I found out when scolding them for their actions that a lot of them really don't know what to think about us and they don't really understand the finer points of English cursing. Some of those students are now the most respectful and attentive in my classes and now have more of an interest in English in general.

I know that most of us are teachers and that it is a super-tiring job. There are times when I don't feel like listening to people's efforts to speak the English language and there are times when stares, rude looks, and the 'hey it's a foreigner!' comments really bug me. I'm not saying that all of us have to be a teacher 100% of the time and never take a break when these sorts of things happen, but to be aware that you are not just here to just teach and speak English and that there are Koreans who would be happy to learn more from you than just English.

Anyway, I suppose that this doesn't exactly apply to what the OP stated, but that post and some of the others here brought this to mind and I just needed to get it off my chest.
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