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korean female co-workers
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Canuck



Joined: 05 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we werent worth what we are getting paid, we wouldnt get paid what we are being paid. Really, do you mean to suggest that we are getting paid more than our worth because of the niceness of the korean hogown owners? Is that right? Who attracts customers to hogwons? Who puts the butts in the seats? It is ofcourse the foreigner teacher. This is why even Kyopos, who speak perfect English, get paid less than we do. It is because we are the image that the Korean parent wants. If we were paid as little as the Korean teachers, we wouldnt come, the hogowns would make less money, there would be less hogwons etc. Really, if given the choice between Thailand and Korea, for the same money, I would have chosen Thailand. Or Id have gone to Japan or Taiwan. We are paid what we are paid because the hogwons need to get us over here, so they can continue making the big bucks that they are making.

On the flipside, Korean teachers get paid less because that is THEIR market worth. Its not like Korean teachers really have that many options. Where are they gonna go anyway? Japan? Taiwan? Thailand? Hell no. They will stay in Korea and get the wage that the hogwons offer, which is less, but hell, thats the reality of the market.

We are what gets the kids in the seats. Thats the bottom line.

Infact, I believe we are getting paid too little. For example: I teach 50 students in the afternoons. They all pay over 200 thousand a month. thats more than 10 000 000 won a month from my afternoon students alone. I also teach kindy in the morning. We have close to 100 kindy students, and 4 teachers who teach them. Kindy classes are more expensive, about double the afternoon classes. I would wager that the hogwon makes (100*300 000/month) 30 million a month from kindy alone. Whats my take of the cash? We have 4 teachers, so lets divide the 30 by 4, thats 7 million a month per teacher, PLUS the 10 million a month from my afternoon classes, and we get in excess of 17 million won a month just frommy classes. I get 1/8 of that total. The school is clearing 15 million a month after they pay me. JUst me. There are 4 of us, thats 60 million after having paid our wages. Not to count the additional classes like the math and science and computer and grammar classes that the stuents attend. But they are still the same students I teach in the afternoons, they stay for extra classes because they were attracted to the hogwon by the foreign teachers. I bet the school clears over 70-80 million a month after having paid us our 8-9 million.

Who the hell do you think drew them to the hogwon? The Korean teachers who really cant speak English well enough to hold an easy conversation? The market dictates worth. Plain and simple. Not some hippy crap about "worth". Money talks and B.S. walks my friend. The bottom line is that kids come to our hogwon for the English, stay for extra classes, the hogwon makes a lot of money, BECAUSE OF THE FOREIGN TEACHERS. When we had our demo classes for the parents, it was us, the foreigners, who did it. NO ONE wanted to see Korean teachers teaching. Its that easy.

Is Brad Pitt REALLY worth more than another actor? No. Hes a good actor but there are ones who are better. He has an image though that consumers want to consume. His movies make a lot of money, he has a huge house and Jennifer Aniston, while some poor schlep in New York or LA is making the rounds right now from audition to audition, while living in some rat infested apartment in a high crime neighbourhood, sharing the tiny pad with 5 other poor schleps, who all could be better actors than Pitt. But Pitt sells, people want Pitt, his value is therefore set at 15-20 million bucks a pic, by the market. Studios pay him because with Pitt, they make money, while they wouldnt make that kind of money with John Doe poor shlep nobody actor living somewhere in New York. It is that simple.

Before you feel sorry for the Korean teachers and condemn us for our wages, think about this. If it wasnt for us, Korean teachers would be making 1500 won an hour doing arbeit at a PC Bang. We gave them a job where they can make pretty decent money. Anyway, if they got is so bad, they can easily quit. Just walk. Find a better job. Why dont they? Maybe cause there arent better jobs for them out there.
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're getting paid what we're getting paid for our skin and birthplace.

Is it a big pile of bullcrap that the Korean teachers who are the ones doing all of the actual work at the hagwon gets paid the equivalent of our weekend bar expenses? Yessir.

Should we complain about it? Nossir. For participating in the system, we're as guilty as the hagwon owners. We dont have the right to.
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Canuck



Joined: 05 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run Forrest Run wrote:
We're getting paid what we're getting paid for our skin and birthplace.

Is it a big pile of bullcrap that the Korean teachers who are the ones doing all of the actual work at the hagwon gets paid the equivalent of our weekend bar expenses? Yessir.

Should we complain about it? Nossir. For participating in the system, we're as guilty as the hagwon owners. We dont have the right to.


Sure its bullcrap, but I ask you, why they stay and continue to work at hogwons? Why not just quit? The answer is that, for all the problems that they have with low pay and a lot of work, they cant get a better job elsewhere. If they could, they would have already quit. I feel sorry for them, but its not my fault that the market sets their worth and our worth at such different levels. Its not my fault that I am in position to earn more and more money as I acquire more and more experience, make contacts and set myself up in this country. Its not my fault that my earning potential as a teacher of English is so disproportionately bigger than their earning potential in the same field. It is the market, the consumers (parents of the little pricks I have to teach) that demand a white face teaching their kids. Being a young, handsome white guy in a looks obsessed society, is not something Im willing to take any flack for. I will enjoy the benefits that God has given me (Im a GOD) and that the Korean consumer is willing to pay for the huge generosity that God has shown me. Thank you Korea.
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuck wrote:
Its not my fault that my earning potential as a teacher of English is so disproportionately bigger than their earning potential in the same field. It is the market, the consumers (parents of the little pricks I have to teach) that demand a white face teaching their kids.

I think what Overleft might be hinting at is that as a culture, we've gotten pretty good at not accepting responsibility for a situation. We do have partial responsibilty for the situation because we're taking advantage of it. It's like the crack dealer saying "Look. I just sell the stuff. I didnt make it. It aint my fault."

I'm as guilty as you are, but I really hate a pirate who claims to not be a pirate as much as I hate a pirate who feels guilty about it yet refuses to leave the ship.

If my metaphor is clear. I'm good at making strange ones. Wink
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Canuck



Joined: 05 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run Forrest Run wrote:
canuck wrote:
Its not my fault that my earning potential as a teacher of English is so disproportionately bigger than their earning potential in the same field. It is the market, the consumers (parents of the little pricks I have to teach) that demand a white face teaching their kids.

I think what Overleft might be hinting at is that as a culture, we've gotten pretty good at not accepting responsibility for a situation. We do have partial responsibilty for the situation because we're taking advantage of it. It's like the crack dealer saying "Look. I just sell the stuff. I didnt make it. It aint my fault."

I'm as guilty as you are, but I really hate a pirate who claims to not be a pirate as much as I hate a pirate who feels guilty about it yet refuses to leave the ship.

If my metaphor is clear. I'm good at making strange ones. Wink


I dont get it. How are we taking advantage of a situation? Are you saying that if we worked for 1.2 million instead of 2, then the Korean teachers would get more money? I doubt that. The hogwons would pocket the money and not a won would make it into the pocket of a Korea teacher. As I said, if their jobs are so bad, then quit. They dont quit because they cant get a BETTER job. They have this job because we are willing to come over, allow hogwons to exist, and hire Korean teachers. Its not like we moved into their turf.
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canuck wrote:

I dont get it. How are we taking advantage of a situation?

If one knows the unfair / shady situation exists, yet one continues to participate in the bussiness that creates it, then that's taking advantage of the situation. And we all do that.

Like I said, I'm letting the situation line my pockets too. The only difference is that I'm not cowardly enough to claim that "Market forces made me do it."

Quote:
They dont quit because they cant get a BETTER job.

They dont quit because the people around them will make them feel like garbage for it. Did you forget where you are?
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richinkorea



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: Gawd Darn Hot and Sunny Arizona !

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool

Last edited by richinkorea on Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mosley



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:00 am    Post subject: So, Canuck... Reply with quote

... such modesty:you're a "young, handsome white guy" and you told the world"Im(sic) a GOD". THIS is the ESL industry in Korea?! What a waste of money, all round , for your salary and the poor tuition-payers/taxpayers of this sad peninsula if you're "right"....
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richinkorea wrote:

Everyone knows that Hulkamania XXXVVVIII was the best ever !


Hardly.

That honor belongs to the Royal Rumble
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run Forrest Run wrote:
richinkorea wrote:

Everyone knows that Hulkamania XXXVVVIII was the best ever !


Hardly.

That honor belongs to the Royal Rumble


IAWTP
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Morning Calm



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

You can't entirely blame the director for this problem. Although there has always been a seperation between foreign and korean teachers due to the differences in salary and working conditions, it has gotten slightly worst due to the fact that foreignors are more aware of the job market and human rights protected by the labor laws. Foreignors can treaten to jump ship after which the school has invested alot of money into an individual, where a korean is dispensable because there is person anxious to replace the unsatisfied or disgrunted employee. This comes from a simple saturation of the market, something that many of you will not have to worry about for the next couple of years.

However, we as teachers can still be understanding to our fellow co-workers and offer them respect. Respect is something that most workers value more than money, especially in the education industry. Korean teachers do have a bit of a chip on their shoulders due to the fact that they are instructors of english yet can not speak as well as a native speaker, but if you turn the coin around, can you speak Korean as well as they can speak English? Give them respect and you can possiblly melt some of the ice that has accumulated during the years of hardships. There is one coming on right now as a matter of fact and you can expect it to get worst. Unemployment is worst now than it was since the IMF and you can expect to see lower wages.....job market for korean teachers is about 1.2 nowadays----and no holidays.

Sad
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Canuck



Joined: 05 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: So, Canuck... Reply with quote

Mosley wrote:
... such modesty:you're a "young, handsome white guy" and you told the world"Im(sic) a GOD". THIS is the ESL industry in Korea?! What a waste of money, all round , for your salary and the poor tuition-payers/taxpayers of this sad peninsula if you're "right"....


I Am a god. I am also a damn good teacher. So no worries.
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Velvet Sea



Joined: 09 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thus suggesting to me that I currently have in my pocket more money than her entire paycheck. That's why you should always be nice to your partner teachers


I agree. I always make a conscious effort to be extra special nice to the hardworking office staff and Korean teachers. I purchase flowers for the office staff to cheer them up every month or so. Often when a Korean teacher helps me with something, I want to buy them lunch or bring something small to work to show my appreciation. I know how hard they work and anything I can do to make their day a little better is small compared to how they help us. Where would we be without them?!! It makes for a great working environment too!
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billbile



Joined: 10 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I see Overleft's point, and I agree with him. There is a severe disparity between the managing/propertied and working classes in Korea. I think this is mainly because of the fact that property is overpriced which is caused by the high demand for property and the low supply. I guess this will resolve itself when the population starts to slow enough, or even to shrink*, causing the property market to slump.

The big gap between management and staff enables the monopolistic/mercantilistic practises I'm sure we're all familiar with to continue, including downright corruption. The simple fact is that it is difficult to set up business or opposition unless you are quite wealthy to begin with. And that SUCKS! The wealthy landowning 'yangban' snobs with rotten attitudes are the last people needed in business. Dynamic and flexible leadership is what works best... and more and more of these kinds of people will get a leg in soon. This is because of banking reform... the buddy-buddy links between banks and big moneyed interests, chaebols etc. are being broken down, almost by force. If anything good has come out of the Minjoo party's reign since 1997/8, it has to be this. Banks are more willing to put their money behind quality, homegrown enterprise proposals. The big pig's snouts are forced out of the trough and don't you love to hear them squealing! Competition is becoming normalised.

Which means teachers can defect from a boss and set up opposition. It means that management has to be more generous to staff.

But it is a long way off, I fear.


*which makes you wonder how they will fix this problem...will they have big immigrations into Korea? that will be interesting to watch.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellofaniceguy: The B.S. contracts on offer in korea are still a lot better than the B.S contracts elsewhere, which is why foreigners flock here. Where else can you easily save 1.5 million won a month. (Ok, saudi Arabia excepted, you have to be a real teacher there.)
The contracts are B.S indeed, but its all they(Korean teachers),and we have. What do you recomend? A nationwide strike?
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