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Would you be offended?
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humanuspneumos



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:35 pm    Post subject: Would you be offended? Reply with quote

Would you be offended if Korea just scrapped the "serverance/bonus" law and just increased your pay 100,000 WON a month or even kept it at an equitable level to save all the trauma the "bonus" seems to cause both parties?

I know I argue for "change" in other posts- I wonder if this is the most needful/logical change to argue for. Wouldn't you rather just happily do your one year and that's it? At very least- you would always know where you stood on finances and wouldn't become so drunk on the idea of "the bonus" that you become too relaxed at saving.


Last edited by humanuspneumos on Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Morning Calm



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely understand your point and from a western perspective, it completely makes sense. However, employers and recruiters alike will revoke such an idea due to the fact they will fear that it may drive the salary market up.
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Hagwon Muppet



Joined: 18 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But isnt the idea of severance pay partly to encourage staff to complete their contracts and stay for a minimum of 1 year with an employer???

I suppose your way could work BUT the employer would surely want a clause that the cash would be returned if you quit early.

Also the law applies to all employees in Korea of which foreign English teachers are a tiny percentage. I doubt they would consider changing labor laws that seem to work pretty well for the general population for the sake of a small minority.
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charpet



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:25 am    Post subject: Backward Thinking, maybe Reply with quote

Regarding your comments "Also the law applies to all employees in Korea of which foreign English teachers are a tiny percentage. I doubt that I would consider changing labor laws that seem to work pretty well for the general population for the sake of a small minority."


"For the sake of a small minority." Humm, we have to keep in mind too that if we all had this kind of thinking, then we'd still have slavery. Even in Korea, some of the Korean teachers must feel that they aren't being treated fairly. shame Shocked
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Hagwon Muppet



Joined: 18 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the laws aren't being applied unfairly to a minority. You have equality but a small group would like the system to be changed to a different one.

Unless there is a sizeable percentage of the population who agree then I doubt anything will happen.

If for example Western teachers were being denied severance by law then, yes, you'd have a complaint.

As it is everyone gets the same severance pay and the law is applied equally.
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charpet



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every law can't be perfect. Some need to be change and if it weren't for the minority that stood up in the past and said no, we're not taking that, then you and me, wouldn't me getting nearly as much as now. Wage and conditions wars have been going on for ages now...and I might add thank god. I agree with you on some points, but at the same time and in the same breath, we have to look at both sides don't we? Wink
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would you be offended if Korea just scrapped the "serverence/bonus" law and just increased your pay 100,000 WON a month [...]?


Korean Labor Law already allows for this. I worked at a school that did this and had it written into the contract. Nobody at that school felt it was the least bit unfair because we were already getting paid far more than 8% higher than any of our friends at other schools.

I believe you can request this from your employer as well at the start of your contract. He might not agree to it - the law states that the arrangement needs to be mutually agreed by all parties. Many employers prefer to use the severance bonus as a carrot to induce people to keep working the entire lenght of the contract - the boss at the school I mentioned had another plan, which was to just keep averyone fat and happy with their jobs ...

Sorry, I've misplaced the link I used to have that spelled out Korean Labor Law in detail. If I find it later, I'll stick it on here.
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Canuck



Joined: 05 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Would you be offended? Reply with quote

humanuspneumos wrote:
Would you be offended if Korea just scrapped the "serverence/bonus" law and just increased your pay 100,000 WON a month or even kept it at an equitable level to save all the trauma the "bonus" seems to cause both parties?

I know I argue for "change" in other posts- I wonder if this is the most needful/logical change to argue for. Wouldn't you rather just happily do your one year and that's it? At very least- you would always know where you stood on finances and wouldn't become so drunk on the idea of "the bonus" that you become too relaxed at saving.


Excuseme? Correct my math if Im wrong, but 12 months at 100 000 a month extra is 1.2 million. Thats half of my bonus. Why would I agree to such a rip off?[/u][/i]
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Holyjoe



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why would I agree to such a rip off?


Because it's 1,200,000 won more than you'd get if your director decides to rip you off...

That's the point of this thread.

Guaranteed money versus running the risk of nothing.
(would make a good premiss for a game show Wink )
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humanuspneumos



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:11 am    Post subject: I see my idea was worded poorly and stupid Reply with quote

I see my idea was worded poorly and stupid- cut the "severence law"- as if. However, if the option isn't built in already of adjusting the wage and forgetting the bonus- then building in the option would be nice.


As for government education (EPIK/University) I'm not sure this is even an issue- it seems that the bonus comes like clock-work 9/10 if not more. I don't know why those two groups would even need to consider revising this part of the pay structure in Korea.



If Bobster is right- that would be ideal for me apart from what the EFL Law folk have in mind- that would be ideal too. I'd rather just avoid the turkey dance by getting what I want monthly and work through groups I can donate to (EFL Law) who have access to "say." Yes- it's a pay-cut in some people's mind. However- really?


Working conditions/Life-style rank high and the bonus turkey dance seriously cuts into life-style! If it was only about money- heck- I'd stay at home and sell lobster/steak door to door and make $3-7,000,000 WON a month. Or I'd work in the oil patch (forget my education) and make $4-7,000,000 WON a month.
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crazylemongirl



Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in two minds about this

There's the fact that this in law, and if it's something that we are entilted too then we should get it.

However, the added stress at the end of a contract (on top the whole leaving the country thing) means that we aren't getting our money anyway.

I'm seriously thinking about taking the second option for next contract if I stay here another year.

CLG
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Jaundiced Jonz



Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul, sixth circle of Hell

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be a bit of confusion here.

It's far more accurate to think of the final payment in your contract as "severance pay" rather than any kind of bonus. You're entitled to it if you work for one year or more (as our visas are designed), but as protection for employers, they don't have to pay you if you aren't employed for a year. Of course, if hakwon owners were all honest, upstanding citizens, this would make perfect sense. No manger wants a string of poor, lazy employees who come and go each month demanding bits and pieces of their retirement bonuses as they go. Furthermore, as "severance pay," you're not technically entitled to two if you decide to work for two years.
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humanuspneumos



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:34 pm    Post subject: Actually Reply with quote

Actually- the whole idea is to aim higher than what you would have taken and say- "Forget the bonus." I know what you mean by lazy- I worked with a teacher who oft ate pizza or whatever in his class- was often outside of his classroom during teaching hours chatting away- he was just milking the system and then had the tenacity to call everyone else lazy.
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Homer
Guest




PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda of like the bonus structure myself. Its nice to get it at the end of the year.
My brother works for a corporation in Japan and he also gets annual bonuses.
Of course some emplyers will cheat on this and that is unfortunate.
Me, I prefer my bonus at the end of the year.
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humanuspneumos



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:29 pm    Post subject: Hi Homer Reply with quote

Hi Homer. Just curious what you're insurance policy is for your next bonus. I too have received bonuses. However, I'm not interested in a turkey dance when it becomes apparent that I'm about to finish- forever.

So- how do you enjoy something you don't have and how do you know that something won't trigger you or someone else to blow a gasket? Would you say it's possible to over-estimate the diplomacy/just be a great teacher theory as a pry bar?
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