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Our Children and Our Korean Experience
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_beaver wrote:


a dorky beaver. . . are you calling me a hermaphrodite?


Just might be...judging by your avatar looks like you be sportin just one too many tails...
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Velvet Sea



Joined: 09 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Velvet Sea wrote:
I once did a short paper in my Child Development Course at uni about Asian parenting styles and it often showed that they can not be truly classified into Authoritive, Authoritarian, Indulgent, or Neglectful (North American Classification). That was some time ago so there definitely could be more advanced studies since then.


Makuski wrote:
Quote:
Well, hey since you did a "short" paper on it, it must be true


The reason I said a "short" paper is because I am not an expert
by any means. Mad
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Jasmine



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Hongkers!

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thought y'all'd like to know that it's 10:07pm...I just got home and on my way in from the parking lot of my building there were no less than 10 children whipping about in between the parked and driving cars on rollerblades and heelys...no helmets or parents in sight.

No, I don't think I'll be taking any cues from Korean parents when I have my own children, thank you very much. Rolling Eyes
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm...dork. well, i've been put in my place. Sheesh. The wit on this board.
Um...Makushi, is it?

Quote:
The report presents a standardised league table of child injury deaths per 100000 children between 1991 and 1995 for nations in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), using mortality data from the World Health Organization.


It's almost a decade old.

Quote:
Sweden and the United Kingdom have the best records on child safety, occupying the top two places of the 26 country league table, with Sweden having just over five child injury deaths per 100000 children. The bottom two places are occupied by Mexico and South Korea, with rates three to four times higher than the leading countries. The United States and Portugal have rates twice as high as the leading countries.


So we are talking about a difference of...4x5=20 and...20-5=15....fifteen kids per 100000 is the difference between first and last place.

You know this is sad. Any child dying before his or her time is truly a tragedy. But damn it all if Korea is just a hell of a place for kids. Let's fry all Korean moms... and dorks!

Also,
Quote:
The number of child deaths by injury in OECD nations fell by about 50% between 1970 and 1995. In 16 cases countries more than halved their child injury death rates over this period.


I hope you can agree with me when i say that this is a good thing, right?

And,
Quote:
Despite good overall performance, the United Kingdom has shown a clear disparity between the rich and poor sections of the population.


What do you make of this? (In case you missed it, it means that more poor kids die than rich kids in the UK.)

You know I got all this from the exact same article that you linked to, calling me a "dork."

This question has been asked before on this site, but please allow me once again: Why are you here? It is extremely obvious to all that you disapprove of all things Korean. Furthermore, your posts have always taken a certain "slant".

Yes, I have not posted often since Dave changed his format. You are one of the reasons why.

Mommy, she called me a bad name~~~
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and one more tiny, little bit that I just couldn't resist:

Quote:
makushi wrote:
Read the article ya dork!


Quote:
THE BOTTOM TWO PLACES ARE OCCUPIED BY MEXICO AND SOUTH KOREA!


Um...those figures cited in "the article" that you kindly linked for us are not exact overall figures, but "rates." You do know what "rates" mean, right? As in so many per 100,000?

Well, Korea has a population of around 45 million. The population of the US is ...

Yeah, but
Quote:
makushi wrote:
Read the article ya dork!


Quote:
THE BOTTOM TWO PLACES ARE OCCUPIED BY MEXICO AND SOUTH KOREA!


Yeah, but those are rates...RATES! As in so many PER so many...

Yeah, but
Quote:
makushi wrote:
Read the article ya dork!


Quote:
THE BOTTOM TWO PLACES ARE OCCUPIED BY MEXICO AND SOUTH KOREA!


Hey, yeah, I realize that it's your link and your cited article, but sometimes figures can be misleading (and old, to boot!).

Yeah, but
Quote:
makushi wrote:
Read the article ya dork!


Quote:
THE BOTTOM TWO PLACES ARE OCCUPIED BY MEXICO AND SOUTH KOREA!


Okay, you are right. I am a dork. Oh, how can I face my son, knowing that he has a dork for a parent! Oh, the horror, the horror!
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohhhhhkay!!! I did some homework. Should have done it sooner, but then I was never the keener.

Corporal was the gal who called a recruiter stupid then got offended when the recruiter insulted her back, then came here to vent about it, then got pissed off when nobody would support her.

Oy vay...should have known...should have saved myself the hassle...
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jh wrote:
You know I got all this from the exact same article that you linked to, calling me a "dork."


Uhhh... He didn't call you a dork, he called me a dork.

jh wrote:
So we are talking about a difference of...4x5=20 and...20-5=15....fifteen kids per 100000 is the difference between first and last place.


The difference is between first and last is 20.4.

jh wrote:
And I don't know where you get your info, but Korea does not have the worst safety records for kids. The US does, bar none. Look it up!


And, that was the statement which was being commented on.
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how do you figure she was calling you a dork and not moi?
Cuz she quoted a quote inside a quote?

The difference between first and last is 20.4? Puhahahaha...


This is from the article cited:
Quote:
Sweden and the United Kingdom have the best records on child safety, occupying the top two places of the 26 country league table, with Sweden having just over five child injury deaths per 100000 children. The bottom two places are occupied by Mexico and South Korea, with rates three to four times higher than the leading countries. The United States and Portugal have rates twice as high as the leading countries.


Ohhhhkay, so one more time (let's see if my rithmetic improves any):

The top countries have just over five per 100k. Korea has three or four times higher. Lesee...well, let's just say 4. So 4x5=20. And the difference between 20 (assuming Korea is the worst) and 5 (the top countries) is....um...15? Dang, how do i do this so I can get 20.4?

Maybe I should consult my advanced calculus texts.

And now, the US (according to this article cited by you) is double. So, double of 5 is 10, I think...

Okay, I...think...I got it now: Korea has a rate of 20 per 100k and the US has a rate of 10 per 100k. And Korea has a population (I reiterate) of 45 million and the US has a population of about 250 million (by conservative estimates - too lazy to look up the exact figure)....By jove, I think we have a winner!!!!

You are makin this all too easy.
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By what standards are we placing these arbitrary notions of best and last? According to the article it is the rate at which these injury related deaths occur with respect to population size. Yet when we compare figures:

A rate of 10 deaths per 100k is seen to be much better than a rate of 20 deaths per 100k.

How about absolute figures:

10/100,000 X 250,000,000 = 25,000 deaths per year (US)

20/100,000 X 45,000,000 = 9,000 deaths per year (Korea)

Yeah, I can see where 25,000 deaths is more preferrable to 9,000 deaths.

You don't like it when someone criticizes the US, do you? But it's okay to criticize Korea, isn't it?

*** These are not exact figures *** They were only taken from the link to the article cited. I believe that was you who cited the article, right? I mean, you do read your own articles used to support your argument, right?

Or...maybe you knew this all along...in which case, I am indeed the dork!
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GRK



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:19 pm    Post subject: our children and our korean experience Reply with quote

Just some personal observations....
Respect - I have seen so many Korean stuedents abroad that will tell their parents anything in order to keep the money coming - no lie is too great. This is more the rule than the exception, from my experience.
Parenting - recently a family member went missing for a couple of days (middle school). The first thing the dad did was look in the school book to try and figure out who her friends were!!
Playing - how many unsupervised kids have I nearly hit while driving. They run around with little respect for their own or others safety; (perhaps this accounts for Korean's diving habits). I once saw my own mother-in-law allow my very young nephew who was playing around, try to put a plug in a power point-nuff said!
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jh....get a hobby.

Please.

You've descended from the realm of someone whom one can reasonably disagree with/argue logically with, to someone who resorts to pulling up past posts to say "see what you said?"

You must have been unpopular as a child. I feel sorry for you.
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jh wrote:

How about absolute figures:

10/100,000 X 250,000,000 = 25,000 deaths per year (US)

20/100,000 X 45,000,000 = 9,000 deaths per year (Korea)

Yeah, I can see where 25,000 deaths is more preferrable to 9,000 deaths.

You don't like it when someone criticizes the US, do you? But it's okay to criticize Korea, isn't it?


Uhhh pardon me JH but you've been in country too long. Your reasoning skills, or lack there of, have taken on a decidely emotional pattern.

It's incredibly obvious that, in fact, the rate is much more important the overall number. If Korea had the same population as the US, the number of deaths in Korea would be over 50,000 (that's 2x or double the number for the U.S. in case you have trouble grasping the implications of the rate)

Additionally, (I don't know why I even bother with this but for the record), go ahead and criticize the US. I could give a rats ass. I do it all the time myself.

Read my posts, I said that Koreans don't have a monopoly on bad parenting. There are some things to be learned both good and bad from them.

Anyway, like I said why bother? You are obviously becoming too Korean to deal with in a rational adult manner. IE you are letting emotion cloud your logic and you can't escape it.

Sorry, but the truth hurts don't it...
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Wombat



Joined: 28 May 2003
Location: slutville

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if JH stands for Jin-Hae or something like it; being a Korean, or a kyopo would explain the maniacal defense of Korea. (Not that all kyopos blah blah).

Wombat

PS - I hate having to put disclaimers on every comment!
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder if JH stands for Jin-Hae or something like it; being a Korean, or a kyopo would explain the maniacal defense of Korea. (Not that all kyopos blah blah).


Yup, I am Korean. This makes a difference? Puts a new light on things? And you must be?


Calling people dorks is logical? I'm the emotional one?

Quote:
Well, hey since you did a "short" paper on it, it must be true


Quote:
You are obviously becoming too Korean to deal with in a rational adult manner. IE you are letting emotion cloud your logic and you can't escape it.

Sorry, but the truth hurts don't it...


And this is a rational adult? Isn't this ironical? We are on a KOREAN discussion forum and you are implying that generally Koreans cannot be dealt with in rational adult manner. Do you really read what you type?

Okay, I will try to be less Korean and more rational and adult like. Try me. Really, I can do it.

Quote:
Jh....get a hobby.


Um...this is my hobby. Refuting idiotic ramblings.


Quote:
You must have been unpopular as a child. I feel sorry for you.


OOOOh! Nasty! And you say that I'm the one descending? Ha ha ah! Trust me, everyone is laughing at you guys. It seems to me that you guys simply can't stand to lose. You have no more valid arguments to make and now are attacking me personally. Very Happy

You would be surprised at the number of pms I've received because of you flakes. Just because most people are above it all and don't feel it necessary to reply to you guys doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you guys or even listens to you.

Me, well, call it a hobby. And I'm not above anything. Us unpopular, irrational, emotionally charged Korean mothers, well, we try to scrape by on what we can.
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jh"]
Quote:
And this is a rational adult? Isn't this ironical? We are on a KOREAN discussion forum and you are implying that generally Koreans cannot be dealt with in rational adult manner.


Yep...that's much pretty much what I am trying to imply. Of course we are talking about classical western rationality versus the fuzzy Neo-Confucian emotional logic that works so well here.

And BTW your writings are the strongest support to my argument. Now that's "ironical."


Quote:
Okay, I will try to be less Korean and more rational and adult like. Try me. Really, I can do it.


Sorry to be so skeptical, but I highly doubt it. It's that ole leopard changing his spots thing.

But, if it's any consolation, I'm sure your critical thinking skills are much better than those possesed by most of our "brothers" in the North.
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