Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Our Children and Our Korean Experience
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makushi:
Quote:

You are not obsessing over this board are you.


Makushi, you have 144 posts on this board, averaging 4.80 posts per day and you're worried about ME obsessing? You are a sweetheart, aren't you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, jh, it's a little arrogant to just appear here out of the blue and start alienating people right off the bat. I alienate people, but I've been here a little longer than you. How about you just stick around, read a lot and post little, and then perhaps your opinions/ideas will be a LEETLE more respected.

kay...just a suggestion...no need to get upset.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coporal,

Ha ha ha, I have been around a long, long time.

Also, most of the pms that I have received were pretty derogatory towards you in particular.

What's arrogant is you.

People have viewed your posts, and they've viewed mine. Let's leave it at that, shall we?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
waterbaby



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Baking Gord a Cheescake pie

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recent posters! JH, Corporal, Womabat, Makushi (did I leave anyone out?) If you don't have anything constructive to add to the topic at hand, please refrain from posting... do it via PM... or I'll lock this baby down.

The bickering is just not amusing anymore.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the pm, Coporal! As one parent to another, I hope we can be friends~~
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does seem funny that JH has joined this board just to contribute to this thread...and the pit stains one, too, of course.

Living in Korea and other countries around the world certainly has affected how my children will be raised. The only positive Korean thing I can think of is babies being carried on the adult's back. I like that after they have been wrapped in that blanket for some time, when they are a little older you can just tell them to "hang on" and they know what to do. Do doctors still think this results in deformed leg bone growth?

But most of my views on nutrition, supervison, etc. are radically different from those displayed in Korea and are only reinforced by what I see here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
why



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well i have to say that this has all been some entertaining and semi-fatual reading. Some of the "fact" on this post have been baised and manipulated to meet the requirements of the individual arguements.

Now, i haven't been in Korea for what i consider to be a long time, but i have seen terrible things such as a mother leaving her baby in the middle of a parking lot while she walks 30 feet to empty the trash (the baby was in a stroller) and i have to disagree with seeing kids in bars and nightclubs after 12:00. However, i don't think that the western ideal is any better. The point that many people may have missed is the fact that in Canada and the US there are apparatus in place which will remove children from dangerous and neglectful parents. (It is call Social Welfare or the Ministry of Children and Families; at least in BC). Now the kids getting yanked from the familes is dependent upon many factors such as abuse being reported amoung other things...., but the point is that government bodies are in place to discipline "bad" parents.
I wonder is such a body present in Korea?
Secondly, while i am inclined to disagree with sweeping generalizations, it seems that most of the arguements on this post have been just that. I wish not to banter, just to point out that both western and asian cultures have bad parents. Perhaps because we are in a foreign culture..we waegooks notice bad parents more...i have seen my fair share of bad parents in Canada as well as Korea...

Mind you i come from Vancouver where there is a disporpotionate amount of drug addict parents and babies that are addicted to crack.........

Either way...Korea, Canada or China or timbuktoo...it doesn't matter there are messed up and dangerous parents all over the world...and even good parents can suffer because their kids have an accident....perhaps in Korea it is just easier to see because we are looking for bad things to talk about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jh"]
Quote:
I
You would be surprised at the number of pms I've received because of you flakes. Just because most people are above it all and don't feel it necessary to reply to you guys doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you guys or even listens to you.

.



Post these PM's. Put your money where your mouth is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ody



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

they say religion and politics are dangerous subjects to discuss. now we have proof positive that parenting is another. that we parents put a great deal of thought into the raising (or "growing") of our children is likely why this is so. it is true, that while most of us contemplate the best methods, there is a difference between contemplation and practice. I think it's safe to say, we do our best.

i hope the potential to broaden all of our ideas on the subject hasn't been lost. there is great potential for future generations to benefit from growing up in environments that welcome reflection, criticism, and the sharing of ideas.

i am glad to be part of this esl community where discussions of such hot-botton issues so often lead to greater understanding!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
why



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i am glad to be part of this esl community where discussions of such hot-botton issues so often lead to greater understanding!


cheers to that !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Dr. Buck



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Land of the Morning Clam

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread reminds me of the movie "Blazing Saddles," when the black guy rolls into town for the first time and gets lynched by the hicks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why wrote:
However, i don't think that the western ideal is any better. The point that many people may have missed is the fact that in Canada and the US there are apparatus in place which will remove children from dangerous and neglectful parents. (It is call Social Welfare or the Ministry of Children and Families; at least in BC). Now the kids getting yanked from the familes is dependent upon many factors such as abuse being reported amoung other things...., but the point is that government bodies are in place to discipline "bad" parents.
I wonder is such a body present in Korea?
Secondly, while i am inclined to disagree with sweeping generalizations, it seems that most of the arguements on this post have been just that. I wish not to banter, just to point out that both western and asian cultures have bad parents. Perhaps because we are in a foreign culture..we waegooks notice bad parents more...i have seen my fair share of bad parents in Canada as well as Korea...

Mind you i come from Vancouver where there is a disporpotionate amount of drug addict parents and babies that are addicted to crack.........

Either way...Korea, Canada or China or timbuktoo...it doesn't matter there are messed up and dangerous parents all over the world...and even good parents can suffer because their kids have an accident....perhaps in Korea it is just easier to see because we are looking for bad things to talk about.


Yes....and you read some of the previous posts you will see that this wasn't about Korean parenting styles vs. western parenting styles. It was about whether or not there are some things to learned from Korean parenting styles that could be incorporated in one's own situation.

It's been said several times that Koreans don't have a monopoly on bad parenting and obviously not ALL Korean parents are doing a bad job.

I don't think we are "looking for bad things to talk about." I think that, as a parent, when you witness the complete disregard for the safety of so many children on a daily basis it strikes you at the visceral level. And when those observations are supported by facts (IE Korean ranks as the worst country in the world for child safety) it makes the oberservations all the more salient.

What causes many of these issues to come to a head amongst the foreign crowd in Korea is that the amount of Korean arrogance for a given subject seems to run counter proportional to the reality of the situation.

Examples:

Korean ideology--- Reality
Koreans are the politest people in the world--- Not even close
Koreans are the kindest people in the world--- Joke
Koreans are the smartest people in the world--- Isn't it obvious
Koreans have the best families in the world--- Divorce rate etc.

If the locals were are little more down to earth in assessing their strengths and their weaknesses, and were less inclined to shove those perceived strengths (but obvious weaknesses) into our faces, the reactions might not be so severe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jaderedux



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, seems parenting should be added to the hot buttons like religion and politics.

As a non-parent I will add my 2 cents. Here is what I have observed.

1. I think kids here are pushed far to hard to go to hogwans and academies. I teach Middle School and I am appalled that a number of students have started getting gray hair. I have no problem with a few fun things like computer or drawing but many of my students go from my school to taekwondo then Academy. Academy ends between 9 and 11. During test cram the students are at academy until 12 midnight or 1. I don't care what country you are in this is not healthy. Most of my students get less than 6 hours sleep regularly and some less than 4. Ironically the student in this school with the highest GPA does not attend any hogwons or academies he is my dream student.

2. I see far too many sprains, bruises and black-eyes here. If I were in the states I would be required to tell someone. Does this happen in western countries of course. I think (personal opinion here so please don't get your panties in a wad) that there is much more EXTREME abuse in western countries. The horrorific stories of kids locked up in the basement starved and beaten to death. Here it is more endemic. It has to be I see Korean teachers whacking away at these students every day. I have seen a mother called to school for a student's more major infraction and the student has the living tar beat out of him in the "counselling" room. I am not making judgement just a fact of life.

3. Parenting seems to take two roads. Until they are 13 or so they are princes and princesses of the realm. Indulged, pampered, sent to expensive private hogwans. It seems once they go to Middle School life starts to suck. Conformity is pounded into them. My first year students attend "membership" training sort of an induction into manhood. It isn't much fun according to them. Lots of physical training, sort of like a mini-boot camp. They attend bonfires and are drilled on what is expected of them as "Korean Men". Seems a little cultish but I don't know maybe it is simply a rite of passage.

4. I have never seen a car seat here. I have seen small children sleeping in the back window of a car on several times. At 11 at night I frequently hear and see very small children wandering around the parking lot of my Apt. Complex sans any supervision. I have seen so many near misses with cars etc. I have become almost immune. I have frequently seen a stroller with a child in it sitting outside the Family Mart while the parent is inside shopping. I am on occasion taking a screaming bawling child to the apartment complex office because he/she is in the middle of the road crying ohhhhh-mmmmmaaaaaa.....over and over again. Then of course the inevitable announcement over the intercom about a lost child. I would say 75% of the announcement are about lost children.

WTF catagory.....a while back I saw a child crying and shivering on the sidewalk trying to eat an ice cream bar. He had attracted the attention of a local dog. Who I am sure meant him no harm but was pretty damn interested in getting some of that ice cream. The child was frozen, but screaming. I asked him what was problem....he points at dog.....I ask where do you live.. he tells me....But starts talking too fast. I try to stop a couple of ladies to help me with this boy. NOT A SINGLE PERSON I ASKED WOULD HELP ME. I was speaking bad Korean I am sure but the situation was obvious. Finally after trying to distract the dog and lead him away with no success I just picked up a big stick and started screaming at the dog. (didn't hit him btw) He ran off and the boy watched. As soon as the dog was out of sight he made tracks.

Side note the owner of the dog saw the end part of the story and bawled me out. I couldn't make him understand so I just said in English "piss off" and walked away.

So I don't know what it says about parenting. This country yanked themselves into a modern country in a very short time. Maybe somethings have not caught up yet. Maybe there is not concentrated focus yet. I often get frustrated at what I see but try not to be judgemental but I think most countries could stand for some improvement when it comes to children.

Jade
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
why



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

makushi wrote

Yes....and you read some of the previous posts you will see that this wasn't about Korean parenting styles vs. western parenting styles. It was about whether or not there are some things to learned from Korean parenting styles that could be incorporated in one's own situation.

indeed, but one of the best ways (IMHO) for a parent to be a better parent is to be critical of their own parenting skills and force themselves to understand that they are not always the be all and end all of parenting. I don't intend this to mean that people have stated that they are gods gift to parenting, it is just persepective is important to keep. In Canada or Korea, i think that there are many fine parents we can learn from and many bad parents we can learn from as well (albeit learning what not to do). I know that children do not come with instruction manuals and that raising them is one of the hardest but most rewarding tasks in the world.

The point i guess is in order to understand what the "proper" way of parenting is one should not just look at the negative or the positive aspects of Korean culture. There is bad and good in every culture as you said.

So to back track to what can we take from Korea as parents? Well an interest in our childrens futures, a desire to have them close to us after they are grown and perhaps we can leave Koreans with an understanding that not all aspects of parenting are black and white. Perhaps we can understand our own arrogance through observation of the Korean falicies in parenting. I think that the Koreans have a genuine interest in their kids futures and the necessity of looking after the old (at least the ideals not the reality) can teach us to think more about the futures we are creating for our kids.

More than 2 cents, but i think that it is something to think about
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Dr. Buck



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Land of the Morning Clam

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be . . .
sissies
wussies
pansies
ninnies

Which is why my future kids won't be growing up in Korea . . . not about parenting styles per se, but more baout the environment and opportunities--as if my kid will be another zombified wanker playing Starcraft, getting handed factory black belts at the Taekwondo dojang only later to get his arse booted in a street fight ten years later, or spending the golden years of his/her youth conforming into a twisted Confucian social structure.
Only to grow up to be a pansy with no life!

No way!!!!!!!

Most korean kids grow up to be whimps. My 30 year old Korean brother in law can't even swim. What a wuss!

My Korean uncle-in-law warns me not to wander in the woods behind the house because of snakes. I tell him I've caught five snakes in Korea with my bare hands since I've lived in Korea!!! No fear!

Back in North America, the spawn of Buck will be masters of swimming, canoeing, rapelling and rockclimbing, archery, small engine dirt bike mechanics, horseback riding, and woodsmanship.
They will know where milk comes from because will have milked a cow. They will have shot and killed a deer with a deadly rifle and then gutted it out. They will have caught fish, filleted them, and fried them up on a beach. They will know how to use a chainsaw and an axe. They will know how to drive a truck even if their little legs can't reach the pedals since dad will make blocks for them. They will know how to use all the power tools in the old man's workshop and they will know how to apply their creativity with them They will have a garden and know where their food comes from, and thus, they will be the kind of people that are not afraid to get their hands dirty. They won't be afraid of the dark because they will have spent time a real wilderness out camping. They will have as many mongrel pets as they want--real dogs--not the grotesque lap dogs here, but larger ones--and these animals they will learn to care care of in sickness and health and thus develop compassion and also a sense of reality with other living things.
They will accomplish these things by the age of 12, just like their father did!

How many Korean kids have had those kind of life experiences? I thought so . . . it's so bad that you can hardly relate . . . everybody is the same with the same dull life experiences.

The 12 year old Korean kids I teach are light years away from this kind of life experience, and life experiences equals many things: maturity, a bit of wisdom, and real life skills you can directly apply to whats in front of you.

My students are helpless pansies but its no fault of their own--its their parents fault for being brainwashed into a system where useless rote memorized book smarts equals the perfect life.

Not!!

I remember teaching Korean executives and engineers for a chaebol. They were great guys, good fellas, but I recall that many of these guys didn't have much to bring to the table in terms of life experiences (and, no their Englsih wasn't a problem since most were almost near-fluent).

What did 20 years of study get them? A boring life and even a more boring job as a Korean salaryman.

At the same place, I helped a bright-eyed newly minted SNU engineering graduate change his car tire because he didn't know how--what a wuss!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 5 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International