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Our Children and Our Korean Experience
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HardyandTiny



Joined: 03 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

makushi wrote:
the_beaver wrote:


a dorky beaver. . . are you calling me a hermaphrodite?


Just might be...judging by your avatar looks like you be sportin just one too many tails...


Who's posting, the kids or the parents?
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_beaver wrote:
jh wrote:
(5000 years, right?)


wrong

That was facetious? Rolling Eyes *heavy sigh* I gotta learn to write better.
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gomurr



Joined: 04 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back to the original topic question. I noticed that whenever I see Korean babies and their mothers, the mother looks like a 1,000,000 won and the kid is dirty. Korean mothers seem to spend more time making themselves presentable but not their kids. My wife spends more time making sure my son is clean before he goes out, no wonder they maul him when we go out.
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, at the risk of sounding like someone trying to refute EVERYTHING and ANYTHING...really, I hesitate even writing anymore, BUT in regards to Korean moms looking great but kids looking dirty (if he she saw it, then she saw it - I'm not refuting that):

Well, perhaps it's because kids get dirty.

Comparing prices for adult clothing with kid's clothing. There IS NO comparison. We are in the wrong biz, folks. I take a size ... err... anywho, bigger than my babies. My outfit runs 20 - 30k won. My baby's run 50k and up for an outfit the size of an oversized hanky.

Seriously, and I'm pretty sure this is found in various parts of the world and not just in Korea; Kid's clothes are outrageously expensive. Not just clothes, either. Car seats, kid's accessories, etc.

So it may not be that Korean moms don't care about our kids' presentation as much as our own (a possible mistaken inferrence on my part); rather, we care a lot about how our kids look and invest a lot into it, but after about a minute left to their own devices, they may have been clothed in rags to begin with.
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the kids always seem to have runny noses and dirty faces. Plus, they never seem to be dressed properly. I'm tired of seeing barefooted kids dangling off their mothers' backs, half asleep, with their heads at a 45 degree angle to their body. Not only does it look downright uncomfortable, but I'm sure it can't be good for their necks. It's like the mother has forgotten they're still there.
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jh wrote:
Certainly, this is a cultural thing. It is frowned upon and not accepted in other countries. This is Korea. This is the culture. Sure some may say too indulgent. But again, this is according to other cultural norms.

I would dare say that rather than a lack of social awareness by Koreans of Korean society, we are perhaps TOO aware (5000 years, right?). Perhaps, it's a case of foreigners still learning to assimilate (for those making an effort, as some couldn't care less, yes?).


JH are you high? Koreans know perfectly how to be polite and make their children polite in public situations. But, they only do so when there is something in it for them....IE...they want to brown nose with others and show how polite they can be...face it Koreans are inconsiderate by everyone's (including Korean's standards) and just rude.

The reason Korea ranks last in the world for child safety is 1) safety and caution isn't taught and 2) people aren't considerate of others and thus often times just run them down.

One question....why can't you or any of the other Koreans on this board just once say..."you know you are right...we need to make our country safer".....instead it's all..."you don't understand, you don't know..we have excuses...blah blah blah....face it you've got major major problems and unless you admit to them... you will never improve....whenever a problem is mentioned about another country i see a fair amount of debate in both directions...but when it comes to Korea...it's all an us and them deal...you are a bunch of brainwashed clones...and from the bottom of my heart i really feel sorry for you...you don't have any clue what it means to think for yourself or really be a human...every thought that you are thinking, even now, has been programmed into you ....welcome to the MATRIX ROK style....

Come on...just admit that Korea has it faults...can you?
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Corporal



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes....thank you for having the balls to post that, makushi! let political correctness not stand in the way of the TRUTH!

And might I also ask, can jh or any other resident Koreans please explain why you all believe that a mother is capable of preventing her infant or children from flying through the windshield in a car accident simply by holding them on her lap?
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makushi wrote:

JH are you high? Koreans know perfectly how to be polite and make their children polite in public situations. But, they only do so when there is something in it for them....IE...they want to brown nose with others and show how polite they can be...face it Koreans are inconsiderate by everyone's (including Korean's standards) and just rude.


Um...could you elaborate on that one a little? We know how to be polite, but we are being impolite on purpose? We know how to make our children polite in public situations, but we choose not to? I'm trying to understand here.

Quote:
The reason Korea ranks last in the world for child safety is 1) safety and caution isn't taught and 2) people aren't considerate of others and thus often times just run them down.

Ya think?

Quote:
One question....why can't you or any of the other Koreans on this board just once say..."you know you are right...we need to make our country safer".....instead it's all..."you don't understand, you don't know..we have excuses...blah blah blah....face it you've got major major problems and unless you admit to them... you will never improve....whenever a problem is mentioned about another country i see a fair amount of debate in both directions...but when it comes to Korea...it's all an us and them deal...you are a bunch of brainwashed clones...and from the bottom of my heart i really feel sorry for you...you don't have any clue what it means to think for yourself or really be a human...every thought that you are thinking, even now, has been programmed into you ....welcome to the MATRIX ROK style....

Yes, we need to make our country safer, but YOU are not right. Very Happy That's it, isn't it? I think we need to make this world safer.

"We will NEVER improve?"

I think Korea has improved a lot in the past fifty years, don't you? I mean, we're eating, we're making more money, we are living longer, working less, let me see...what other criteria is there...hell we even have foreigners coming to teach our children. Okay, MY point is that we were making strides in our progress before you came, are doing so DESPITE you and will continue to do so long after you're gone.

When you say stuff like "you don't have a clue how to think for yourself!" What do you mean by that? When I stick up for my country I am NOT thinking for myself? I am less than intelligent? My arguments are not logical? Poorly written? Somebody is standing behind me with a gun forcing me to refute all this? Oh, I get it! I am not thinking for myself because I'm NOT AGREEING with you!!!

You know what I find ironical? Corporal's signature implies that being part of the majority may not always be the correct thing. Well, it seems to me that I am an army of ONE. Cool

Quote:
Come on...just admit that Korea has it faults...can you?

Sure, Korea has many faults. Which country doesn't? So why are you raggin on this one? Cus it's feeding you? Giving you a spouse? Children?

Everyone is entitled to rag. We, Koreans, think freedom of speech is a good thing. Just do it a bit more intelligently. Wink


Last edited by jh on Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corporal wrote:
yes....thank you for having the balls to post that, makushi! let political correctness not stand in the way of the TRUTH!

It's not "political correctness" it's ... nevermind.

Quote:
And might I also ask, can jh or any other resident Koreans please explain why you all believe that a mother is capable of preventing her infant or children from flying through the windshield in a car accident simply by holding them on her lap?

Korean moms think that? I don't think that. Maybe I've been brainwashed! My friends don't think that. My hagwon moms don't think that. Somebody told you that?

Maybe it's because I was never in a car seat when I was young. You are so lucky to have been in a car seat when you were a baby! Oh, how I envy you!
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gomurr



Joined: 04 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jh was right kids get dirty. But that's still no reason why mom can't clean them up before they go out. Usually it seems mothers just don't take the time to dress their babies. My wife and I have seen lots of korean babies still wearing their pajamas while they are at E-Mart with mom. Branded baby clothes and stuff is expensive but there are places where you can the same stuff for half the price if you know where to go in Seoul and any other big city. Besides if you take care of your things then it can be resold or reused in the future. We have sold a lot of our baby stuff or given it to friends who are expecting babies. Example: We keep our stroller in the house after use, folded up and out of the way. In our apartment complex, we see lots of other strollers lying in various positions outside or in entrance ways at all times of day or night. Many are covered by fungus and dust. It's all about pride in how not just you but how your baby and possessions look. Another point on the cost thing Korean moms can spend 100,000 w on a perm and hair coloring but can't buy half decent clothes for their kids? Come on!
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gomurr wrote:
Another point on the cost thing Korean moms can spend 100,000 w on a perm and hair coloring but can't buy half decent clothes for their kids? Come on!
You know someone who does this? It has been my impression that MOST parents regardless of nationality will sacrifice to provide more for their children. But a statement such as the above "Korean moms" would imply that a nation of us ignore and abuse our kids for selfish reasons.

I hate to compare, but do you really think Western moms are more unselfish in terms of their children's welfare than their Korean counterparts? Hm...that is interesting. Not the fallacy, but that Westerners have this perception of Korean moms. I don't think Koreans have this perception of Western moms (before you can think it - not because it's true - how can you qualify such a remark?). I certainly don't think that I am better than Western moms - more aware than some, perhaps...oh, waitaminute...hmm... Those fools!!! Twisted Evil
(I've seen kids in Alabama and Manitoba walking barefoot and carrying their infants around under one arm in nothing but an old diaper to the local 7 eleven to spend their last few bucks on a pack of cigarrettes and a lottery ticket. BOY THESE NORTH AMERICAN MOMS NEED TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACT!) --- See how this sounds? I don't mean it (although I have actually seen it); it is only an analogy.

And what about those Korean moms married to Foreigners? They are not Korean? Or is it because they are OK, because they have been properly educated by their more knowledgeable Western spouses? We are simply ignorant, aren't we? The best thing for all Korean women to do would be to simply marry a foreigner. Then we would all be GREAT moms! Very Happy
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jh wrote:
. . . Manitoba walking barefoot and carrying their infants around under one arm in nothing but an old diaper to the local 7 eleven to spend their last few bucks on a pack of cigarrettes and a lottery ticket.


Oh come on, man. Sure, some people spend their last few bucks on a pack of cigarettes and a lottery ticket -- but they don't walk around barefoot in Manitoba.

And, now that I think about it, it's impossible to spend your last few bucks on a pack of cigarettes in Canada-- a pack of cigarettes costs a lot more than a few bucks.
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makushi



Joined: 08 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jh wrote:


"We will NEVER improve?"

I think Korea has improved a lot in the past fifty years, don't you? I mean, we're eating, we're making more money, we are living longer, working less, let me see...what other criteria is there...hell we even have foreigners coming to teach our children. Okay, MY point is that we were making strides in our progress before you came, are doing so DESPITE you and will continue to do so long after you're gone.


Agreed, and each step "forward" was made possible by the recognition of the need to improve. It's the ole AA thing, first you've got to admit to having a problem before you can get busy on the road to recovery. This post was about Korean parenting styles (not everything else in the country).

So are there some things Korean parents (as a collective group) could do to improve? Or have you all reached the pinnacle of parenting ability and thus will not tolerate any suggestions whatsoever?

That is what it boils down to pure and simple...someone says something negative about Korea and you simply play it off as anti-Korean sentiment.

Again...are there some things Korea parents can do to improve?

I mean the fact that Korea ranks last in the world for child safety...kind of implies that there might be a little room for improvement doesn't it?
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jh



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_beaver wrote:

Oh come on, man. Sure, some people spend their last few bucks on a pack of cigarettes and a lottery ticket -- but they don't walk around barefoot in Manitoba.

Why because it's too cold? Sure, some people in Korea spend 100,000 won for their hair - but come on, man! It was pretty analogous to what was said before, no?

Quote:
And, now that I think about it, it's impossible to spend your last few bucks on a pack of cigarettes in Canada-- a pack of cigarettes costs a lot more than a few bucks.
But more than a kid's shirt or less?

Makushi wrote:
Quote:
Or have you all reached the pinnacle of parenting ability and thus will not tolerate any suggestions whatsoever?
Ooooh I see! You were making a suggestion! Silly me Embarassed

Quote:
I mean the fact that Korea ranks last in the world for child safety...kind of implies that there might be a little room for improvement doesn't it?
You keep sounding this out like a broken record. I think I've shown quite nicely in the previous posts that figures, especially your figures, can be misleading. If Korea is the last among 23 countries, then there must be only 23 countries in the world.

By the way, your argument for last is based on the assumption that fiji is worse than China because their rates are higher. This is the basis for your rhetoric! I must urge you to try and think for yourself and not to continue to spew hateful, flaming propaganda. It is considered okay from where YOU come from to QUESTION what authority tells you. But you are their poster boy!

I have never said that Korea is the best. The statement about the US was regrettable on my part (it's almost knee-jerk); they're so darn big. And they seem to be the standard for everything going on in the world - money, standard of living, education, accidents, deaths, moms, kids, dogs, cats,... I know this is a weak attempt to cover up my earlier faux pax, but if you're gonna be the standard bearer, then comparisons come up.

Quote:
That is what it boils down to pure and simple...someone says something negative about Korea and you simply play it off as anti-Korean sentiment.
But if you say something negative and nobody is there argue that what fun is that? Since we're boiling and simplifying, do you lay off everyone who defends Korea as simply an apologist?; someone unreasonable, brainwashed, ignorant and childish?

You remember that part about ragging more intelligently?


Last edited by jh on Sun Jul 13, 2003 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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the_beaver



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jh wrote:
Why because it's too cold?


Yes.
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