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Class hours/pay

 
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Starperson



Joined: 23 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:45 am    Post subject: Class hours/pay Reply with quote

Please help me understand.

Is this the way it works here?
No matter how long you spend at work, you're only ever paid for the time that you're actually teaching a class?
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maxxx_power



Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Location: BWAHAHAHAHA! I'M FREE!!!!!!!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the main reason I gave notice at my current Hogwan (among a host of others). Read the contract carefully, a teaching hour may mean 60 minutes, split up however the director may choose.

I only teach 6 hours each day, but am onsite from 9am to 7:20 every day!

Needless to say I'm choosing my next contract carefully.
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Starperson



Joined: 23 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:37 am    Post subject: unpaid hours Reply with quote

Ten hours for six hours pay seems ridiculous. But is it the way things generally work here in Korea, or is it a bad deal?


Should I expect to be working at least a couple of hours unpaid per day?
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a bad deal that maxxx got, but, like he said, you do gotta be careful and whatnot.
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Starperson



Joined: 23 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:10 am    Post subject: yes...but? Reply with quote

Yes. But (and I'm trying to convey a sense of urgency and immediacy here) what would you consider a reasonable amount of overtime? Say you teach five 40-50 minute classes per day, how many hours unpaid overtime is acceptable?
And how do you tell your employer before you sign the contract, "I'm not doing more than ... hours overtime."
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not called overtime. It's called planning time. Or split shifts, with you not allowed to leave the premises. You basically have to ask your intended boss how many hours you're expected to be physically present. If it sounds unreasonable, don't even think twice about it.

I wouldn't accept more than 1 hour of planning time, myself...for hakwon work, anyways. But some places might genuinely require more.

Overtime is a whole new matter. That's based on classes, more or less. You'll most likely never be paid for planning time, and it definitely won't go towards any overtime potential.
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: yes...but? Reply with quote

Starperson wrote:
And how do you tell your employer before you sign the contract, "I'm not doing more than ... hours overtime."


I think that the amount of overtime that's reasonable is entirely up to you, and your contract should reflect that. This clause is in my contract. I suggest that you insist on similar language being in yours:

"Overtime is not obligatory. The teacher reserves the right to refuse to do overtime or any activity for or with the school in his free time or on holidays."

Having this in your contract, and sticking to your guns is probably your best bet for avoiding unwanted overtime.

To avoid a situation like Maxx's, insist on a guaranteed range of hours being in your contract, go for language like this:

"The workload is 100 hours (equal to 120 teaching sessions of 50 minutes each) per 4 weeks, and it is organized into one shift of five continuous hours a day starting no earlier that X:00 and ending no later than Y:00, Monday through Friday."

Having your boss actually respect the contract may well be another matter, but having a contract you can live with is a damn good place to start.
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Starperson



Joined: 23 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:23 am    Post subject: ok Reply with quote

Right. Thanks for the helpful comments. Planning time is not the same as overtime. Got it.
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:02 am    Post subject: unfortunate Reply with quote

South Korea Worst in Labor Relations

South Korea's labor-management relationship is one of the worst in the world, according to the International Institute for Management Development (IMD) of Switzerland.

According to the IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook 2003 released last month, South Korea received the lowest 3.55 points among 30 countries with populations of more than 20 million in terms of labor-management relations.

The low score indicates that labor-management relations here are hostile and confrontational rather than productive and cooperative.

South Korea had the worst case of legal discrimination against foreign companies, indicating the country's poor investment environment.

http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200306/kt2003062718352011900.htm
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schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: sokcho

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what a lot of people dont get is that the salary pays for a fulltime job & class hours constitute a portion of that. You cant teach well with zero prep. Youre hired to do a job.
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Starperson



Joined: 23 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:41 pm    Post subject: too frank Reply with quote

I guess it's the same with a teaching job back home, you've usually got to at least do some preparation outside of working hours.

I guess when you look at it as a full-time job, it's only fair that you put in the exra hours preparation, which aren't really extra at all. I think it's just the way that it's all presented that's confusing and slightly annoying at first.

My first experience showed me that it may not be the best thing to be completely frank in talking about hours and pay. I think the art of conversation and 'buttering up' plays a big part here.
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