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YBM: Tell me I'm crazy!! :-)
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Mr. Literal



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: Third rock from the Sun.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyeur wrote:
no matter where I go seems a total crapshoot.


Now you're catching on.

I agree that you should get it all on paper; I'm just giving you fair warning that you can expect the director/owner to change the conditions whenever he wants, for whatever reasons he wants, and with absolutely no warning. You will be blindsided. And the minute you say, "but my contract says...." they'll fire your a ss.

Good luck. Be wary.
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyeur wrote:
Other say children are easier? Why do you feel adults are easier?


Voyeur wrote:
Again why adults over kids?


Answer to both questions - Kids are evil
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JackSarang



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyeur wrote:

So I guess the logic would be that if I have no way of knowing anyting even remotely for sure I might as well at least have an official contarct that says I am getting paid a decent amount right? I mean sure everything can go to hell but no point starting off with a guarantee of slave wages to start things off?


Right.

Quote:
If I want to teach in Seoul what kinds of places and what kinds of conditions should I at least aim to get in my contract - granted that even they may be lieing?


At Hogwans. You can reasonably expect the following from a school in Seoul: 2.0 million a month. Single Housing. No split shifts, no weekends, No Kindy, 10 paid vacation days, 14 Korean national holidays. 120hrs contact hours a month. Prepaid airfare, severence, 50% medical insurance.

Check the job listings or ask for positions from a recruiter, many many schools offer that exact package.

You then follow up by asking for the e-mail addresses or phone numbers of current teachers at the school and you contact them about working conditions. Most places have no problem letting you get in touch with current teachers.
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Voyeur



Joined: 19 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys.

I won't be taking the YBM job.

I e-maile them and told them that without single housing and a guarantee on schedule that has my at the office hours and number of classes actually reflect working only 75% as much as a guy with a standard 120 contract I won't begin to think about it. Obviously they won't be able to guarantee that and even if they do that would just be a start since even if it is in their contract, it is unlikely that they will honor any agreemnent that puts a 1st year teacher well ahead of others with similar official credentials.

So I'm holding out for better. Thanks.
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BTM



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Back in the saddle.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a good choice, perhaps no. Always the crapshoot, unfortunately.

I do wish more new arrivals would hold out for good contracts, though, so a big Well Done there. It helps all of us get the message across.
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Squid



Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Location: Sunny Anyang

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm? which question first?

Academic really since you turned it down, but despite the knockers you could do a lot worse than YBM for a first time gig- start at the coalface is my philosophy.
My K girlfriend (Now wife) suggested them whilst I was "Back home" because mainly there'd be no problems on payday, but seriously, after having been a not-so-glorified childminder for about ten months I was ready for a long break. I'm now looking for anything but teaching.

Adults are better, in my humble opinion, to teach because they're generally motivated learners, and I was placed out to teach a few adult classes which paid pretty well too, but you have to mind your P's and Q's with them.

I think I worked my "Contract hours" one month from the twelve.

Nuff said.

Squidly
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SeoulShaun



Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think you are special in their eyes because of your resume then you wouldn't be making the same 1.7 mill the just graduated, no experience necessary, off the boat, 3 bottles of soju a night, are making. Wait a second, they make 1.9 or 2 million (must have been the soju)..........You asked for these peoples' opinions if you don't want to know don't ask..........
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Literal wrote:

You: But I was supposed to be taken to my apartment to rest. I just spent 15 hours on a plane. I'm hungry, tired, and I need a shower and nap.

Your boss: But we need you to teach now.

You: But I don't know what to do with these kids. What about all the training I was promised?

Your boss: Oh, you will figure it out. Bye-bye. (Shuts door).





Actually the scenario should go like this:

You: I just spent 15 hours on a plane. I need a shower and a nap.

Your Boss: But we need you to teach now.

You: Well cry me a river. I'm going to my apartment for a shower and a nap.

Boss: well..um okay.

Just be firm. Is he going to fire you after he got your visa, spent money on a plane ticket and spent all this time and effort? Unfortunally Mr. Literal's scenario is correct.
Too many gutless way-gooks are coming over here and don't have the backbone to stand up to their employer. And then they come here and complain about it. Look if you let something like this happen, then you forfeit all right to complain about it. The reason why this scenario is so common is that so many people cave in so easily.
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Voyeur



Joined: 19 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeoulShaun wrote:
If you think you are special in their eyes because of your resume then you wouldn't be making the same 1.7 mill the just graduated, no experience necessary, off the boat, 3 bottles of soju a night, are making. Wait a second, they make 1.9 or 2 million (must have been the soju)..........You asked for these peoples' opinions if you don't want to know don't ask..........


No, I said I might have an edge over someone else who had my same amount of official teaching experience due to my resume and other factors. MIGHT. MIGHT NOT. Seeing as I was the rookie here it would be as much a mistake to assume that these fators have zero benefit as to assume they have a significant one so I just listed it for consideration and IMO the jury was still out.

Now that I have thought this through and turned them down I see more clleraly hwo things went. All that my resume did was put me at the top of their list of people they were trying to entice but you only get a day to decide since they don't want to lose the other applicants and they are hardly in love with you. And NOTHING about non-teaching qualifications changes the salary, schedule, or housing - only what order they try to draft you to fill their cookie ccutter spot. Even superior teching qualifications would add only a set-amount for the salary and everything else was non-negotiable since they'd rather hire the inferior candidate under their own conditions than make any changes to the offer.

I thank everyone for their answers and I learned a lot. Please don't mistake challenging an answer to see the reasoning behind it or to play devil's advocate a bit for someone who is set in theor own beliefs or who doesn't want to hear the truth. It is just that you hear a lot of things on these boardsa and it is hard to take some answers at face value without challenging them a bit seeing as often someone else is telling you the exact opposite.

Again, I do now understand that while it is is not quite true that the only thing that matter sis looks, being a gorgeous blonde female, western teaching experience in a real school, or previous actual ESL experience and after that we are all just teaching cattle with pulses that look the same, ther e is a whole lot of truth to this as well.
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