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Not paid today... What now?
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:54 am    Post subject: Not paid today... What now? Reply with quote

OK, OK, I know I'm not the first teacher to go through this, and I doubt I'll be the last, but now that it's happening to me I could use some advice.

Today was payday. I wasn't paid. I asked her if she would pay me tomorrow. She said she would "try". She says that because it's summer vacation she hasn't gotten paid by all of the parents yadayadayada.

I failed to see how this was my problem, and told her that if I didn't have my pay by the end of tomorrow I would not be teaching classes the next day. This led to a tirade on her part about how she was losing students because of me.

FWIW, Enrollment is up since I started 6 months ago, but she has yet to reach her goal of 100 students. Also, a brother/sister duo just dropped out after I sent them both to the corner for hiding under the table in the middle of class. IMHO, this is typical hogwon nonsense and is absolutely no excuse not to pay me for time already worked.

Sigh... I am very disappointed, because I actually like this job. Reasonable schedule, no kindies, nice apartment, decent location, and I've been given a lot of latitude. I just passed the 6-month mark and was seriously considering signing for a second year. Of course, if I'm not getting paid, nothing else really matters, now does it?

I want to stay in Korea, I want to get paid, and if she can pay me, I want to stay at this job.

Any general advice or constructive suggestions would be appreciated.

One specific thing I'm wondering about is this: If I do end up walking out of my job because I haven't been paid, what happens to my visa? Yeah, maybe I should have thought about that before I threatened to walk, but I was pretty ticked to hear that she wasn't sure when she could pay me for my previous month's work.

Thank you for reading.
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camel96
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I wouldn't make a big deal about it. Ask her when she can pay you. It's slow time at all the hagwons now. So her excuse possibly isn't too unrealistic. You said they've given you a lot of latitude in the past about other things so maybe cut them some slack and give them an extra couple of days.
On the other hand I wouldn't let it slide into a situation where they are paying you weeks late.
Do you trust them???? Presumably they've never paid you late before???
You're writing as if you're ready to quit based on the fact that they are paying you a few days late but at the same time you're saying you like the job. Just be careful about burning too many bridges or things are definitely going to get much worse.
Not much constructive info I know but hey it's 1.30am and I figured maybe no one else is around to offer "moral" support.
Good luck.


Last edited by camel96 on Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lost Seoul



Joined: 10 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If all chances of a peaceful resolution fail contact the Ministry of Labor they MAY take up your case but be prepared for a long arduous battle. For a list of telephone numbers of regonal offices go to:

http://www.molab.go.kr/English/abou/sub_3_2.jsp

Labor Standards Act
===========
Article 42 (Payment of Wages)

(2) Wages shall be paid more than once per month on a fixed day; however, this shall not apply to extraordinary wages, allowances, or any other similar payment or those wages provided for by the Presidential Decree.
===========
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panthermodern



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

summer is generally the high point of most hakwon's seasons.
They "should" be flush with cash.

They might tell you ... wait wait ... next month ....

and then wammo ... no pay again ....

Then you walk ... Now it is fall .... they don't need you anymore ....

They broke the contract ... you have NO reason to teach anymore.

It is all over .... expect the worst.

I would advise that you refuse to teach until you get paid for this month and perhaps even next, in advance.

DO NOT be surprised if you never see any money at all from this point.

If you waffle, your weak (in their eyes) and they might not pay you.
Stand up to them and they might not pay you ..

Then again is it better to be NOT paid for one month or two ...

Go to the Labour Board, Immigration and/or EFL Law.com

tomorrow.
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captain kirk



Joined: 29 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a big picture, a long term contract, one year. to waffle on pay is very serious. the boss knows that if they want to keep you they have to pay on time, no fooling around or excuses. your boss has tossed that. your boss has money from your hard work minding your job the last six months. to keep being a boss and your relationship going they must fulfill their end and properly pay you. there's no excuse. if you buy into the excuses you go off road. there's been a derailment. your boss has to pay their expenses. your boss has lost track here, not you. no discounts. got to get the delinquent boss back on track.
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camel96
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthermodern...
No offence but that's the worst advice I've ever heard.... Wink
But that's okay it's always good for us all to have something to strive for.

Bear in mind his pay is one day late! ONE DAY!!!!!

Sol Deureo - Take it easy. Talk to the woman. See what she says and don't provoke the situation with rubbish about labor boards and quitting. You said yourself they've been good to you up until this one SMALL incident.
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with most of the other posters. If this is the FIRST time she's been late, then let it go for a while...no more than a week!

If she STILL doesn't pay you, then explain to her that you're like the electric company. If you don't get paid, you don't work!

She'll have a hard time explaining to the parents why you're not teaching, so chances are, she'll find the money!!!
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JackSarang



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've been paid promptly and in full up to this point, then give the woman some latitude. No more than a week. If at that point you haven't been paid, refuse to work.

If you do walk, you will have to wait for your E-2 Visa to expire before you can apply for a new one. So assuming you started working with a valid E-2, you'd have to wait 6 months.

The exception is if the Director grants you a Letter of Release, which if you walk out, is unlikely.
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matthews_world



Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Location: Coming to a norae-bang near you!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Not paid today... What now? Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
She says that because it's summer vacation she hasn't gotten paid by all of the parents yadayadayada.Thank you for reading.


There's your problem right there, plain and simple.

Parents haven't got around to sending the school their money. It's common.

Just hang tight for a day or two max. You'll get it.



Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Mr. Kalgukshi



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: FSU 13-0 -- Go 'Noles! 2014 BCS Bowl Champions

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:40 pm    Post subject: My Take Reply with quote

The part that bothers me is that your boss did not give you any advance warning this was coming. There's simply no excuse for that.

Such a situation demonstrates lack of respect for you and your needs on her part. She has an obligation to you and that is to pay you your salary on time. She has failed to live up to that obligation. She has poisoned the atmosphere. Not you.

I would give her a date certain by which you expect to be paid. Make it clear that if you are not, you walk. Such a date certain should not be a week from now but no more than 2-3 days. At the same time, make it very clear this will not happen again and if it does, it will be the last time.

If you let her get away with this now, it is likely there will be repeats in the future. How secure do you feel about next month's payday?

She has the money. She's using it for other priorities. Tell her your priority is you.
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SeoulShaun



Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that summer time should mean more money as most schools put on those intensive classes..........give her a few days and get a specific answer as to when she will pay you. No more than that.
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JackSarang



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rike wrote:
I have not been paid on time in eight months. It doesn't really bother me. It's not like I will starve if I get the pay a little late. If the students haven't paid yet, where the heck is the money supposed to come from?


Your hogwan is a not-for-profit concern then? Director's have the money, its matter of priorities for them. Paying their staff is the last of their priorities.


Quote:
(but I share the blame in that as I kept forgetting to bring in my bank book so he could deposit the money).


What blame would that be? Your director doesn't need YOUR bank book to deposit your pay. In fact your Director shouldn't be touching your bankbook at all.
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itaewonguy



Joined: 25 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Not paid today... What now? Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
OK, OK, I know I'm not the first teacher to go through this, and I doubt I'll be the last, but now that it's happening to me I could use some advice.

Today was payday. I wasn't paid. I asked her if she would pay me tomorrow. She said she would "try". She says that because it's summer vacation she hasn't gotten paid by all of the parents yadayadayada.

I failed to see how this was my problem, and told her that if I didn't have my pay by the end of tomorrow I would not be teaching classes the next day. This led to a tirade on her part about how she was losing students because of me.

FWIW, Enrollment is up since I started 6 months ago, but she has yet to reach her goal of 100 students. Also, a brother/sister duo just dropped out after I sent them both to the corner for hiding under the table in the middle of class. IMHO, this is typical hogwon nonsense and is absolutely no excuse not to pay me for time already worked.

Sigh... I am very disappointed, because I actually like this job. Reasonable schedule, no kindies, nice apartment, decent location, and I've been given a lot of latitude. I just passed the 6-month mark and was seriously considering signing for a second year. Of course, if I'm not getting paid, nothing else really matters, now does it?

I want to stay in Korea, I want to get paid, and if she can pay me, I want to stay at this job.

Any general advice or constructive suggestions would be appreciated.

One specific thing I'm wondering about is this: If I do end up walking out of my job because I haven't been paid, what happens to my visa? Yeah, maybe I should have thought about that before I threatened to walk, but I was pretty ticked to hear that she wasn't sure when she could pay me for my previous month's work.

Thank you for reading.


I think you over reacted!
one day past pay day and you freak out!!
at least give it 2 weeks before you confront your boss and say I wont work past tomorrow if I am not paid!
give her a chance! seems its the first time this has happend..
yes you are right what does it have to do with you!!
do you just expect her to pull out 2 million won from thin air!!!??
anyway many teachers are not paid for 1 -2 weeks because things happen be a little lenient...
she has much more stress than you!!
and whats with sending the kids to the corner for hiding under the table!?
they are just KIDS MAN!!!
I am sure you did it when you were a kid! try and remember your school days when you enter the classroom!!!

it is easier to became them than it is for them to became you!!
if you cant beat them JOIN THEM!!!
relax man.. you will get paid! and if you dont after 1 month then you take legal action! not one day after pay day ok!.
and the kids go easy man.. its not like they swore at you or hit you. they just hid under the table and you cost the owner 400.-000 a month because the students dont like you!! they think TEACHER IS CHEMI OPSO!
and thats HAKWON BUSINESS!!!
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mishlert



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: On the 3rd rock from the sun

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm the only teacher on this thread that has always been paid on time. I have been in Korea for over three years and have worked at two hogwons that were brand new and loosing money in the beginning, but were able to "pull large sums of money out of thin air". Where did they get the money? I did not ask, and they did not tell.
So, though this has never happened to me I will say that being a couple of days late with pay is not that big a deal. But when the owner is 1 week, or more late in paying and giving lame excuses, then one should take appropriate action.
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panthermodern



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To defend my "don't work" opinion:

You people realize that the hakwon in question is claiming that they do not have the cash to pay the OP.

How much money is that 2 - 3 Mwon?

I have been in Korea 6 years and I can honestly say that in 90% of the cases where I have know people not to be paid on time it is because the school has no intention of paying them or they are trying to get the teacher in question too quit.

The other 10% generally is because the management of the Hakwon in question is just to bone lazy to up hold thier half of the contract.

Tell me what would happen in a teacher "forgot" to show up for classes ... would the hakwon give the teacher the benifit of the doubt, of course not.

Payday is a contractual obligation of the employer and lateness in pay is as much of a breach as any other.

A breach is a breach is a breach.

Futhermore, I think the OP would be better off working for an employer which is better financed, if they do not have the cash on hand during the busiest season of the year, what will happen when the time get a little lean.

Remeber, I suggested that the OP go talk to the Labour Board and Immigration. Getting "real" advice from the "real authorities" is far more useful then any other.
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