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Not paid today... What now?
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Mr. Kalgukshi



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: FSU 13-0 -- Go 'Noles! 2014 BCS Bowl Champions

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:32 pm    Post subject: And Reply with quote

And if you haven't done so already, you might want to check out the "My school closed today" thread on this forum. Unfortunately, such things do happen.
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katydid



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Here kitty kitty kitty...

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Deureo...

Well, what you said sheds a lot of light on your predicament. Forgive me for saying this, but I think being paid only a day late, isn't much to complain about, especially if her school is going through some hard times. Three weeks, that is something to squawk about. Smile
I'm not sure, but I think back home, some small businesses may not always pay on the exact date they said they would, because unlike big corporations, the small biz owner is directly affected by how well or how poorly he or she did that month. It can really fluctuate, and as the small biz owner may have a more personal rapport with his or her workers, he or she may hope that one day off won't be a horrible setback, and will hope the workers will understand and trust him.
OK, I know...hagwan owners and trust in the same sentence. Silly Katy... Rolling Eyes
I agree with panthermodern...look at the big picture, and judge for yourself how well the hagwan owner is taking care of you. Do you get sick time? Are you under a health insurance plan? Is there some sort of double standard she has set between the Korean teachers and foreign teachers? Are you well informed about what is going on in the hagwan, etc.? If those things are all being well taken care of, then I'd call the late payment a mild inconvenience. But if she is doing something else that spells out she doesn't care about you or your job, then look for something else.
I am concerned she said the hagwan was living hand to mouth now, too. So please keep us posted on how you're doing!
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JackSarang



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rike wrote:
JackSarang,

Read a little closer....I said.....not paid ON TIME.....I never said that I wasn't paid at all. I certainly don't work for free. And I don't positively require that the hagwon pay me on the exact same day every month....as long as they DO pay me, all is good. I'm just flexible when I know that being rigid won't get me anywhere.


No, you read a little closer. Your contention was that "how is the Director supposed to pay you when the parents haven't paid him yet?" Making the bizarre assumption that his entire operation is working paycheque to paycheque. Hogwan's make profits, big ones and unless the school is failing miserably, which should be very evident, there is no excuse not to pay a teacher. If hogwans didn't have massive profit margins there wouldn't be one on every corner.
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katydid, no need to apologize. One day late in and of itself may not be a big deal in the big scheme. What freaked me out was my boss' lack of certainty about when she would be able to pay me. Fortunately, things worked out... this time.

Also, since you asked...

The relationship between my boss and I is largely governed by the fact that she does not speak English. This also has a lot to do with the incompetence that I was referring to earlier, she's running a school teaching a language she doesn't speak. I speak enough Korean to deal with her for most day-to-day issues, and there is a bilingual supervisor there to translate for the rest. That supervisor is also on vacation right now.

Due to the language barrier, we don't have much of a personal relationship to speak of. I don't even know if she's married or has kids. After four months of working with her, she was surprised to learn that I like kimchi.

For the most part over the past six months, she pretty much stays out of my way as long as I don't cost her too much. Early on, she criticized me for being a bit harsh with the students, and I have toned it down. In the incident I mentioned about the two students who dropped out, wonjangnim supported and approved of my actions until the Precious Duo's mommy pulled the students out.

When there are complaints from parents about what goes on in the classroom, she will generally defer to the judgment of me and the other teachers who actually speak English. When I asked for new textbooks (the ones we were using when we started were the cheapest she could find and pretty much completely useless), she agreed because the supervisor supported me. But getting her to also shell out for the flash cards and teachers' guides was like pulling teeth. It also took 5 months for my supervisor and me to convince her that wastebaskets in the classroom were a good idea. Rolling Eyes

As for taking care of me, my biggest concern is that she will not shell out for health insurance. I'm not happy about this, but the low cost of Korean health care mitigates this. For personal and apartment problems, I can handle most things on my own or with the help of building maintenance or my (Korean) girlfriend. I try to be low-maintenance, and don't ask for much help.

On the upside, she has put me in a 45 million won key money "a-pat-euh" high-rise. It's clean, modern, and right next to a subway station Cool . When my washing machine broke and building maintenance wouldn't help she came over the next day and took care of it (the lint filter just needed to be cleaned Embarassed ). I inherited this apartment from my predecessor who had a break-in in her previous ground floor apartment. When I asked for two days off to participate in The Contenders game show on Arirang, she was cool about it, and advertised my appearance in the school's newsletter to the parents. Other than this, I have never missed a day or come to work late.

In other words, despite our minimal personal rapport, I think we have a decent working relationship. We basically stay out of each others' way, and smile at each other a lot. We've had minor squabbles over classroom issues, but we have pretty much always resolved them peacefully. She brings kimbap for the staff, I bring in fruit and candy.

As I said, on the whole things are pretty good. I don't want to see this situation messed up.

There are a lot of things I am willing to be, and have been, flexible on. I am very uncomfortable with the idea that getting paid on time should be one of them.
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canukteacher



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've come into this topic a little late, so cut me some slack if I repeat what anyone else has already told you, or I seem a little harsh.

I get very annoyed when I hear teachers say "oh it is only one day......give them some slack". That's the problem here in Korea teachers are often afraid of standing up for themselves. If you are mean to be paid on Friday why should you wait until Monday?

I have always been paid in Korea, and on time. This is my 3rd position. The day I don't get paid I will walk. You run a business you have the money to pay your staff, or you lay them off........simple as that.....no if ands or buts. English teachers are not charity workers. Get paid and get paid on time!

BTW.........I have always been very clear (especially when I worked in a hagwon) that late payment was acceptable. I would always say something about payday two or three days before. Alert them to the fact that I have plans for my money, and I am expecting it on time. Has always worked for me.

Just my pennies worth Smile
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camel96
Guest




PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The day I don't get paid I will walk


I'm sure you'll be missed Wink

Quote:
I have always been very clear (especially when I worked in a hagwon) that late payment was acceptable


Why have you just spent the whole message arguing the opposite then...???
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 2 sides to this. Nobody likes to get shafted, and I certainly feel for those that do. I had a friend whose pay was over a month and a half late, but he stuck it out and finally got paid in full. (I'm sure that this is a very rare occurance) I know I sure wouldn't have waited that long.

I doubt if I could go more than a week, after that, what's the point? For all the mental anguish they are putting you through, you are better off leaving.

If my boss came up to me and told me I was causing students to leave, I would say, " Ok, time for me to leave then too".

The truth is, if they had half a clue how they should run their crappy school, they wouldn't be having any enrolment problems. Schools that have problems like that are usually schools that don't stand up to the parents, and thus make a bunch of stupid snap decisions which piss everyone off, especially the teachers. The result is that the classes go from bad to worse, and then they blame the teacher as is the standard way of "saving face" in Korea.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is, nobody wants to walk if they're leaving behind a big payout. Thats an easy way out for Mr. director, and you can end up screwed if you get no release letter, have to move all your stuff suddenly, etc etc.
My situation at the mo is that my director has only paid me 1.4 of my 1.9 salary, in dribs and drabs, that was due 22 days ago. I keep wingeing, every time he placates me with another 200.000 or whatever. I threatened to walk already but realised I have a couple of trump cards..
1) the teacher who's due to replace me has refused to start there until the director pays me;
2)The director is mad keen to buy a certain item in my possession: I've told him I'll sell it to him after I've been paid..

I generally have an Ok relationship with my boss, I'm sure he'll come through but its getting a bit nerve- wracking now.
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Walter Mitty



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Tokyo! ^.^

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
My situation at the mo is that my director has only paid me 1.4 of my 1.9 salary, in dribs and drabs, that was due 22 days ago. I keep wingeing, every time he placates me with another 200.000 or whatever.

I generally have an Ok relationship with my boss, I'm sure he'll come through but its getting a bit nerve- wracking now.

Dude, if your boss is jerking you around on your pay like that, you do not have a good relationship with him.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

walter: you're right.. but i finish my contract next week anyway; no way i'm about to walk at this stage in the game...In fact I've only 4 teaching days left. I'm hardly about to blow it all out the water now and forfeit all the money owed to me.
The teacher replacing me has told the director he won't start until I've been paid in full..he's pretty nervous about working somewhere thats late with paychecks.
So, the next week is going to be interesting....
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck. It sounds like you may need it.

Don't let him keep your money, no matter what!
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further to my unfolding crisis:After much extension of my paydate and my contract, I've finished work yesterday (Yeehaa!!!), and was due to be paid my last check today- W2.5M. This is after a temporary 5 - month gig filling in for someone else.
And, you guessed it,- no sign of the money. I've just spent the last 2 hours in heated discussion with my boss..he's had plenty of time to find the money..whats more, I'd already booked 2 holidays- a package tour to beijing and a birdwatching tour of some Islands in the south. I've cancelled the former and put the second on hold.
He comes out with some chat about having difficulties with withdrawals etc. As proof he gets me a bank statement at the bank next door showing he has the money, but cannot withdraw it until tomorrow because of some clearance date on his new bankcard or whatever..so payday has been delayed until tomorrow night as I have arranged a trip to Gwangneung tomorrow..
Basically, I'm sick to death of this: I'm on the verge of taking legal action now. What can I do to enforce this exactly??
I have limited funds as it is- my savings have gone on paying debts etc already.I can't afford to hire some hotshot lawyer or sit around for months while some dumb officials drink coffee and consider my case..What the hell can I do?
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
.
He comes out with some chat about having difficulties with withdrawals etc. As proof he gets me a bank statement at the bank next door showing he has the money, but cannot withdraw it until tomorrow because of some clearance date on his new bankcard or whatever..so payday has been delayed until tomorrow night as I have arranged a trip to Gwangneung tomorrow..
Basically, I'm sick to death of this: I'm on the verge of taking legal action now. What can I do to enforce this exactly??


If he is paying you tomorrow, why take legal action?
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urban myth: He paid me everything...no worries now...Its just that at the time I was very uncertain as to wether he actually would.
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canukteacher



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the typo Camel.........should have read Unacceptable...............50 lashers for the proofreader. Embarassed Shocked

Actually Camel I probably would be missed, but then again maybe not.............who really cares? Wink
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